Chris and his D3 Interview

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Destructodave wrote:

Its why Warframe is huge and Borderlands isn't. Loot has to have value or it starts to not mean anything.

Now, I'll say here that I'm a big fan of Borderlands and I never played Warframe (if I have it was early enough that I don't remember it at all) but at first glance it seems that itemization in the latter is much more complex. Loot in Borderlands is pretty simplistic, there are certain variations in ultimate loot but unless you're a huge perfectionist it probably won't matter. It also seems like Warframe puts a lot more emphasis on multiplayer and is dynamically maintained which is also a big longevity factor, in other words, I don't think it's quite as simple as having an economy or not.

Gotta admit it looks good, I should probably try it.

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raics wrote:

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Destructodave wrote:

Its why Warframe is huge and Borderlands isn't. Loot has to have value or it starts to not mean anything.

Now, I'll say here that I'm a big fan of Borderlands and I never played Warframe (if I have it was early enough that I don't remember it at all) but at first glance it seems that itemization in the latter is much more complex. Loot in Borderlands is pretty simplistic, there are certain variations in ultimate loot but unless you're a huge perfectionist it probably won't matter. It also seems like Warframe puts a lot more emphasis on multiplayer and is dynamically maintained which is also a big longevity factor, in other words, I don't think it's quite as simple as having an economy or not.

Gotta admit it looks good, I should probably try it.

It's a good game and its free. All you are out is the time it takes to download and install it. I dunno if I'd call the loot more complex or not. Its probably debatable person to person.

Especially at a time like this when you might be bored waiting on the next league to start or whatever. But it is grindy. And it is fun. I normally hate partying in these kinds of games. I hate partying in PoE, I hate it in D3, I just dont like it. You feel like you are just standing around doing a whole lot of nothing or spamming into a wad of mobs. But it being a FPS game, and with large maps, you feel more impactful in parties than I feel in other games. You at least feel like you are doing something in your neck of the woods compared to just sitting there watching someone mow down all the mobs for you. Its a hard thing to describe. But you probably have an idea of what I mean.

Anyways, I recommend it. Its a good game if you like looter games and since you are playing PoE and Borderlands I'm pretty sure you do. Its loot is a bit different, though. You find blueprints to make items and 90% of the stuff you are finding are materials to make them.

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Destructodave wrote:

Anyways, I recommend it. Its a good game if you like looter games and since you are playing PoE and Borderlands I'm pretty sure you do. Its loot is a bit different, though. You find blueprints to make items and 90% of the stuff you are finding are materials to make them.

Yeah, just saw a review and it's promising all right, p2w doesn't seem too savage either so I'll definitely give it a shot these days.

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DGTLDaemon wrote:

- Wisdom scrolls
- Portal scrolls
- Orbs of transmutation
- Orbs of alteration
- Orbs of augmentation
- Orbs of chance
- Armorer's scraps
- Blacksmith's whetstones

Protips:

1) don't pick up wisdom and portal scrolls and scraps and whetstones unless you want to use them
2) convert trans orbs, aug orbs and alt orbs via vendor recipe into jewellers and then fuses
3) sell fuses for chaos

problems weren't

if you really want to pick that shit up and trade it for chaos, offer a good rate and you will sell it within seconds.

I must admit theres something to be said for selling low, buying high.


It runs count er to what makes sense, surely you want to buy low and sell high? Well, yes, ideally, but when that starts taking up time you got to question it. When ur buying one currency for another theres a lot of times when overpaying by a single orb on the ratio will get you a trade instantly, if this means you can then go and run a quick map in the time it would take you to mess around trying to get bang on the ratio, are you gonna find more orbs in that map than you overpaid? Yeah probably. If youre a flipper u take the time to get the deals because thats ur earnings, if ur a player whos earning by playing often its better to undersell by an orb or overpay by an orb in order to speed up trade, shift your items, get what ur trying to get in return so that you minimise your playing downtime.


Honestly I really think we should have an automated currency/fragment/essence auctionhouse, that removes the vast majority of really harmful price fixing. The item trades you can just leave as they are, the time it takes works as a fee, works as a cost of trading that prevents flippers from going mental, I think when you bring in other systems like throttled trades through whatever means, it just gets too messy in a game where you have the ability to make alt accounts, where w ehave guilds etc.



this warframe game sounds interesting, gonna check it out. and yes, I agree removing trade is the ultimate horror when it comes to removing value from gear, not the only one by any stretch, but its probably the biggest. Loot having a sense of value is essential to a loot game.

About warframe, first 200-400 hours will be a good experience, and after that, you will see that it is worse grind that PoE. Even now, with new update, you have tons of people complaining how their focus system (imagine if you had to grind exp to maximize ascendancies for max power) with 2nd redesign is still bad for some schools and it would take a year and a half of farming every day, maximum limit of experience limit for the day to max it.

And thats nothing compared to some guild research grinds, or plains of eidolon (new area) grinds for reputation.

Overall it is a good game but wouldn't reccomend unless :
a) you will play it every day few hours for years to come
b) you will play it as a fix of shooter-rpg maybe once a week

Then on topic of trading.

I would really agree to the option that all gear is still bound to poe.trade while it would really be nice to have tradehouse for currencies/maps/essences, basically any stuff that you can bulk purchase.

This league it was my job to purchase maps for guild, with guild currency. And i gotta tell, buying 30-50 poorjoys daily is mentally exhausting and plain stupid. I'm really happy when I find a person selling 3-9 of them.

But, then we come to the flaw in trade. Many sellers want 20chisels for it. I offer usually 10chaos if i feel like it, which is 21-22 chisels when converted. But guess what, even when they would earn extra 1-6 chisels per trade, vast majority doesn't want to accept chaos, since they plainly hate to be forced to waste time on trade and convert chaos to chisels. So I'm stuck to doing double the work and saving in a way that every 10 trades I can buy another map from leftovers gratis.

If any guy wants to run 500 spider forests. He either has to farm 500 of them, or if he goes trade route, spend hours to buy them at acceptable prices. And if someone wants to do 500 spider forests, I don't see why should we make it harder for him to reach that goal if he wants to pay for it and enjoy playing the game instead of wasting time on trade,

But gear concerned, no ah for gear ever, rates of obtaining gear now are too easy.

Also, I don't know, but I noticed GGG devs never spoke about auction divided, what I mean, they say gear is too easy to obtain, but I wonder if they ever tried to buy bulk currency and maps. Never saw comment on that.

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Necromael wrote:

About warframe, first 200-400 hours will be a good experience, and after that, you will see that it is worse grind that PoE. Even now, with new update, you have tons of people complaining how their focus system (imagine if you had to grind exp to maximize ascendancies for max power) with 2nd redesign is still bad for some schools and it would take a year and a half of farming every day, maximum limit of experience limit for the day to max it.

is it an actual concern or is it just entitled ppl complaining?

Personally I dont ever want to hit lvl100 in poe, I havent done all the content, I havent done stuff like a chayula breach for example, dont want to, dont ever want to hit max level or do all the content or have perfect gear. In my mind why would I ever want to 'finish'? the game is the journey, its a fun game, why would I want the journey to end? To me complaining that you cant hit max level or get perfect gear or beat all the content is like complaining that game of thrones has more than 1 episode. If youre enjoying watching it why would you want it to be over already?

Grinding games even more so than a story, at least a story theres closure in the end, theres a point to it. Stuff like leveling systems, loot systems, they dont have a conclusion, theyre there to add purpose to the journey, its like having the radio on in the car, it adds something to the time you are driving. If the radio ends before youve finished driving then that sucks balls right? Im still driving where the fk has my radio show gone? Now Im driving in silence? wtf is this shit? You want the radio to still be going when the drive ends, who cares if the radio has more to listen to when youre done driving? You switch it off and walk away, it was only there to keep you company for as long as you needed it.

Can you still just play and have fun without maxing things? Is it an essential thing for some reason or is the complaining just people who dont have the perspective to appreciate that something is lost when you hit the 'max' and hence maxing things should always be out of reach? Obviously I havent played it so I dont know the details of the systems. It depends on the game and the system but generally speaking a good leveling or loot system in a grinder never allows you to hit a max level or get perfect gear imo. If you had a level 100 char with literally perfect gear in poe how much would u keep playing that character? I dunno, personally I think it would feel pointless. If you want to stop playing then you can just press escape and quit the game, if you want to keep playing then the systems that give rewards as you play need to last as long as you want to play, it doesnt matter if they have more to give than you want to get, it only matters if you want to get more than they give.

I dont like the idea of daily limits on stuff I must admit.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Necromael wrote:

About warframe, first 200-400 hours will be a good experience, and after that, you will see that it is worse grind that PoE. Even now, with new update, you have tons of people complaining how their focus system (imagine if you had to grind exp to maximize ascendancies for max power) with 2nd redesign is still bad for some schools and it would take a year and a half of farming every day, maximum limit of experience limit for the day to max it.

is it an actual concern or is it just entitled ppl complaining?

Personally I dont ever want to hit lvl100 in poe, I havent done all the content, I havent done stuff like a chayula breach for example, dont want to, dont ever want to hit max level or do all the content or have perfect gear. In my mind why would I ever want to 'finish'? the game is the journey, its a fun game, why would I want the journey to end? To me complaining that you cant hit max level or get perfect gear or beat all the content is like complaining that game of thrones has more than 1 episode. If youre enjoying watching it why would you want it to be over already?

Grinding games even more so than a story, at least a story theres closure in the end, theres a point to it. Stuff like leveling systems, loot systems, they dont have a conclusion, theyre there to add purpose to the journey, its like having the radio on in the car, it adds something to the time you are driving. If the radio ends before youve finished driving then that sucks balls right? Im still driving where the fk has my radio show gone? Now Im driving in silence? wtf is this shit? You want the radio to still be going when the drive ends, who cares if the radio has more to listen to when youre done driving? You switch it off and walk away, it was only there to keep you company for as long as you needed it.

Can you still just play and have fun without maxing things? Is it an essential thing for some reason or is the complaining just people who dont have the perspective to appreciate that something is lost when you hit the 'max' and hence maxing things should always be out of reach? Obviously I havent played it so I dont know the details of the systems. It depends on the game and the system but generally speaking a good leveling or loot system in a grinder never allows you to hit a max level or get perfect gear imo. If you had a level 100 char with literally perfect gear in poe how much would u keep playing that character? I dunno, personally I think it would feel pointless. If you want to stop playing then you can just press escape and quit the game, if you want to keep playing then the systems that give rewards as you play need to last as long as you want to play, it doesnt matter if they have more to give than you want to get, it only matters if you want to get more than they give.

I dont like the idea of daily limits on stuff I must admit.

Ok I'll help. I'm right in the 200-400(357 hours). Yes, you can still play and have fun without maxing things. He forgot to mention that the biggest knock on the Focus is just how mediocre and useless it is. It doesn't offer you much at all unless you choose the Energy Regen School, and even then other people can share theirs, and it won't even make much difference unless you are soloing. You can't even access it until halfway through the game. And the daily cap is 250k. You have to have a specialized farm and frame set up to reach that number. If you are a casual person just playing you will never reach it. Case in point; I'm casual enough that I just get it by playing instead of shooting for it. I make like 50k a day.

You can easily just have fun straight from the get go. The best way to describe it is you start off like a super hero. You are very powerful right out the gate. You don't have that lvl 1-30 lull or whatever you normally have in a typical Arpg where you are killing rats with sticks. You start out the gate like Spiderman. So if anything, the most fun this game gives you is exactly what he said; from hour 1 to 400. I mean what is the crime in that? The gist of it is you are basically a superhero shitting on tons of mobs in your super suits with various guns/weapons/skills. You find more suits/guns/weapons to do it with. I can stay now at 357 I can really start to feel the grind. Which isn't bad except the grind is kind of...meaningless in a sense? But again, this is not something that will cross your mind for a month at least. You have too much to do.

I dont really want to just throw out the entire systems here and explain it because I mean the game is free, on steam, downloads and installs like a rocket, you are better off just giving it a whirl and judging for yourself.

But on a side tangent about 400 hours. 400 hours is a long damn time. 400 hours of fun gaming for free, before the seams start showing? What games don't have that problem? Even PoE, I play like 1 to 2 months of every league and quit. I wouldn't consider PoE bad because I could only play 300 hours before I got bored. I got 300 hours out of it. Its one thing I've never understood from gamers. Like WoW. People buy the expansion, play for 3-4 months, and then start talking shit about it sucks, but yet had a blast for 3-4 months BEFORE it got old to them and the problems started showing. I consider that a pretty decent investment for 4 months of fun game-time. Even D3. Even people who shit on d3 more than likely enjoyed a solid month or 2, or 3, of fun gaming before the seams started showing and the problems arose and they erase the fun they did get like it never happened, because the game can't last a lifetime like they wanted.

To me it just seems kind of weird to tell someone NOT to play a game because they will only have fun for 400 hours, lol. That could easily tide someone over until, say, December and the next league/patch drops in PoE.

Again, I'm not trying to shill for Warframe. It was just an example that fit the narrative I was using since it was easily compared to another FPS Arpg in Borderlands and I was currently playing it. But it is a fun game you can get a month to a few months of fun out of for nothing; maybe more if you somehow love it like people love PoE. And there are plenty. But 400 hours? You know I've played TF2 off and on for YEARS since it was released and I barely got 400 hours in it and it feels like I've played that game forever.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

well, its not really that youre forced to be a budget meta type player because of your drops, its the second thing, you become one by not being decent at theorycrafting and trading. You dont have to be great at them but being competent and active, not sucking at them, you wouldnt be in that position regardless of the drops. The theory of the game is what the entire thing revolves around so its not rly the trade system or the drop rates, its not getting to grips with the core game systems.

The constant meta shuffling makes the game unplayable for me. I've always been the "I pick and play the OP builds type of player", and if that shit changes with every update, then I'm forced to take a complete shot in the dark gamble on going with something I thought was good 1-2 patches ago, just to hit end game and find out it's been gutted. Then quit the league. After doing that enough times, I just quit the game.

I don't theorycraft my own builds in any ARPG. Because I've never been any good at it. The results are always a lot of time, energy, effort that turns out to be fruitless 100% of the time. And I'm not that dedicated. In anything.

I'm just looking to copy a build someone posted on the forums that's a decent budget meta build.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

"I pick and play the OP builds type of player"

Well, you do know what OP stands for? If something is over powered, it should be nerfed. That's sort of the meaning of the word "over". But anyhow, you ARE capable of changing this be doing some research - and looking ahead for possible nerfs. Like Dark Pact, maybe, that skill smells "nerf" a long way.

Listen, I'm not defending nerfing anything, but if nerfs are keeping you from playing, you should maybe try picking other builds. Because regular nerfs and META changes will not change. Ever.