Instant logout is ruining every part of this game

I could write a whole essay on the subject, but I'll keep it to just bullet points.

- First off, no it's not a skill. When you can just press a button and be instantly safe from any harm, that is the least possible amount of "skill" you can have in a game. There are already several options for escaping danger: you can portal out, use a movement skill, etc. All of them take more skill than a logout macro, only none are as efficient. So the existence of instant logout actually removes skill from the game, not adds to it.

- Instant logouts are half the reason why every new bossfight is a lame cavalcade of oneshots and AoE spam (with ludicrous player damage combined with Vaal Pact being the other half). If players can get to safety instantly, then you have literally no option but to kill them instantly. So that's what all bossfights become: dodge the telegraphed oneshot, ignore everything else. No variety.

- The oneshot meta in turn creates Path of Life Nodes. Hands up, who genuinely enjoys the fact that you have to spend 75% of your skill points on pathing to life nodes?

- The oneshot meta is also the only thing that makes Evasion/Block/Dodge second-class citizens compared to Life/ES/Armour. There's no reason why we couldn't have a game balanced around sustain, where the challenge is not surviving one big hit, but having the right mix of defenses and recovery to survive consecutive smaller hits; except for the fact that instant logout trivializes such gameplay.

- The only reason for not allowing players to re-enter the Lab is because any such mechanic could be abused by instant logouts. It makes uber lab farming less appealing, because you gamble every offering on the assumption that you won't get a crash or disconnection. ISP acting up? Fuck you, offering lost. Game crashed because of GGG's bugs? Fuck you, offering lost.

- EDIT: and speaking of crashes and DCs. You know how currently, when you get a crash, DC, or even a bout of large frame drops with as much as a mob of whites around, you instantly assume you're dead? Yeah, that's the oneshot meta at play again, and that's not going to go away either as long as instant logout exists.


Add a 5 second delay to logouts, and the barrier to fixing all of these problems is suddenly lifted. And if anyone can think of just one good reason against, I'd be genuinely curious to hear it.

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suszterpatt wrote:

- Instant logouts are half the reason why every new bossfight is a lame cavalcade of oneshots and AoE spam (with ludicrous player damage combined with Vaal Pact being the other half). If players can get to safety instantly, then you have literally no option but to kill them instantly.

This is an HC-only issue. If you really think that instant logout macros are the reasoning behind 1-shot attacks, then you severely overestimate the share of HC players in PoE and the importance of HC in general.

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Kelvynn wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

- Instant logouts are half the reason why every new bossfight is a lame cavalcade of oneshots and AoE spam (with ludicrous player damage combined with Vaal Pact being the other half). If players can get to safety instantly, then you have literally no option but to kill them instantly.

This is an HC-only issue. If you really think that instant logout macros are the reasoning behind 1-shot attacks, then you severely overestimate the share of HC players in PoE and the importance of HC in general.

It's a matter of public record that GGG don't want people to reach lv100 easily. That makes it important to kill players regularly even in softcore. And with instant logouts, the only reliable way to kill players is via oneshots. Ideally, oneshots that the player can't see coming, to prevent pre-emptive instalogging. Which is how we end up with stuff like Act 10 Kitava, Gruthkul, and many other bullshit boss designs.

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Kelvynn wrote:

This is an HC-only issue. If you really think that instant logout macros are the reasoning behind 1-shot attacks, then you severely overestimate the share of HC players in PoE and the importance of HC in general.

You do know that there are quotes out there, where Chris says, pretty directly, that the ability to instant logout lets GGG design "more interesting" and "more dangerous" encounters/boss fights? So they ARE in fact building/balancing around the ability to instant log out, whether you view it as a "HC only issue".

'more dangerous' encounters? Sure.

'more interesting' ? LOL. Yea right.

I agree monsters are way too strong, but it's not an interesting mechanic, it's just a number you punch into the computer to decide how strong a hit is going to be.

Like, guardian of the phoenix, very interesting fight just wacking a fucking slab of meat down and dodging phoenix adds.

Someone please point me to 1 interesting fight. The only thing I can think of is atziri. I think that fight was very well designed, but the uber trio are stupid. The girl being able to 1-shot 90% of builds with her needle rain is not 'interesting' but it certainly is 'dangerous'

Please

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suszterpatt wrote:

It's a matter of public record that GGG don't want people to reach lv100 easily. That makes it important to kill players regularly even in softcore. And with instant logouts, the only reliable way to kill players is via oneshots.

Lv 100 is not normally achieved in dangerous content (with just a few exceptions). It's achieved in 100% safe and easy maps where nothing can possibly kill you unless you make a serious mistake. Shaped Strand is dead, long live Shaped Shore, etc. Or, in case of this league, Beachhead. Approaching any serious boss at lv 99 is crazy, unless you get paid for it. So then it doesn't really matter if there are logout macros or not. You should never need them for the goal of lv 100.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

This is an HC-only issue. If you really think that instant logout macros are the reasoning behind 1-shot attacks, then you severely overestimate the share of HC players in PoE and the importance of HC in general.

You do know that there are quotes out there, where Chris says, pretty directly, that the ability to instant logout lets GGG design "more interesting" and "more dangerous" encounters/boss fights? So they ARE in fact building/balancing around the ability to instant log out, whether you view it as a "HC only issue".

I wasn't aware of that. Could you provide a link to Chris saying that?

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Kelvynn wrote:

I wasn't aware of that. Could you provide a link to Chris saying that?

It took me forever to figure this out, but since this forum's search function sucks, it works better if you go into Google and enter site:pathofexile.com and then your queries.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/536962/filter-account-type/staff/page/1

(my search query was:

site:pathofexile.com chris log out exciting hardcore

)

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adghar wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

I wasn't aware of that. Could you provide a link to Chris saying that?

It took me forever to figure this out, but since this forum's search function sucks, it works better if you go into Google and enter site:pathofexile.com and then your queries.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/536962/filter-account-type/staff/page/1

(my search query was:

site:pathofexile.com chris log out exciting hardcore

)

Thanks!

OK, that's one really confusing set of posts there. Chris says one thing, Qarl says another, then he says Chris didn't mean what he said, then he posts these two lines right next to each other:

"

Of course we balance knowing players will Alt-F4 out of there.

We also balance knowing players will never Alt-F4, or portal out, and want to be able to win that fight fairly.

WHAT?

And all that was 4 years ago. Whatever they meant back then, they might have changed their minds since then (e.g: I clearly remember a statement that they were perfectly happy with the existing currencies and were not planning to add any new currencies).

Perhaps it's a good time to ask them for more comments.

Agreed. I've been saying this for ages. Can't really add all that much to it, but I'm quite sure there are more aspects that are ruined by instant logouts.

After reading the posts from Chris about this, well... Honestly I think having instant log-out and all-around one-shots causes the bosses to be pushovers. Why? Because people will not risk fighting a map-boss that is known for its one shots when the rewards are not worth it. Or they will but with only a selection of broken builds, which on the other hand causes build diversity to suffer greatly (Vaal Pact, Totems, you get the idea).

I also love how we have instant log-outs and large swings of damage and to cause a rush of adrenaline in the player, but at the same time we have white monsters that are nothing but a grass to be mowed by every single build possible.
So we have a non-existent difficulty for whole maps (this also applies to acts) and then stupidly difficult boss fights.
The exact way difficulty curve should not be. lmao

The last thing I'm going to mention is pretty moot point, but I think it is worth leaving here.
Most of my friends who tried PoE got at least to maps. That is around 7 people. Only 3 of them every reached maps of tier 10+. Most of them dropped after ~2 weeks. Two most common complains: trade is terrible, one-shots are boring and frustrating. Take it for whatever you want.