People complaining about trade have no clue how good they have it.

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DGTLDaemon wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Some players view it as their birthright to be able to buy/sell what they want, when they want to, without any effort.

No. Not without any effort - without getting distracted from the core gameplay, which, as someone else mentioned above, is killing monsters. And for the record, I have absolutely nothing against playing SSF as long as drop rates are balanced around SSF. In PoE, they are not. Unlike D2 or D3, farming for specific build-enabling items is impossible in most cases, with very few exceptions. And this makes trading mandatory for most builds. You want to make players rely less on trading, and more on grinding? Then alter the drop rates, make it so that you can farm specific monsters/areas for specific drops, like it was in Diablo 2 where you could farm virtually anything yourself, even Enigma (with the possible exception of SoJ and torches, but most builds could function without them). Until then, trading will remain an integral part of PoE. And right now, it's the most unenjoyable and frustrating part of PoE - because of that goddamn "player interaction" component that GGG believes to be so important. For me, the main advantage of an AH would be depersonalization of trading and removal of the "player interaction" aspect.

I'm not advocating a SSF playstyle here. Trade IS and WILL always be a huge part of PoE in the "regular" leagues. And it should be. But it shouldn't be "alpha omega". It should NEVER be/become TOO easy. Too effortless. Because if trading becomes the only "go-to" every single time you feel somewhat undergeared, the GAME as whole have a problem. there should be a balance between "doing things yourself" and "trade for everything". As of now, that balance is somewhat good. If trade becomes even easier than it is now, and gear become even more accessible, the in-game progression will be non-existent.

Even though I trade when I really need to or have certain builds I want to try, the feeling of a good drop will ALWAYS feel much better than buying an item. And to think drop rates will stay the same if they make trade even easier than it is now, is naive at best. You're practically removing that feeling from the game. That will be sad. Very sad. And then trade becomes what it was in D3 and is in some other games; the ONLY way. Please, don't make it so.

I'm all for trading. But trading needs its limits.

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KiadawP wrote:

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Icoblablubb wrote:

comparing trading between games which are 13 years apart nice one OP... like comparing graphics from a ps1 Metal Gear Solid to ps4 one

Same thought.

Also, people should stop pretending AH ruined D3, for starter,
1) D3 is not ruined, its still healhty & could have similar, maybe even have bigger base now than PoE.

2) It was not 'ruined' by AH. AH was mainly removed because players want to gear up with loots they found, not trade.

3) D3 at launch was a much different game than today. I rage quit D3 3 months into launch, & picked up Grim Dawn & PoE, but returned (because I believe in 2nd chance) when the expansion launched, & there have been massive improvement, but many people who bad mouth D3, base their oipion on the launched game, which is more than unfair.

I am as non PC as it gets, & being a PoE forum, bias towards PoE is expected, but its kinad redicluous (IMO of course) to think D3 is a massive failure & lousy game. & IMO is a much better MP experience for one.

D3's playerbase means absolutely nothing. It's still a shit example of an ARPG. It's an action game that holds your hand like a 2 year old.

I won't comment on the AH but the RMAH was a stupid idea and really hurt the game.

D3 was really bad at launch and their fixes just morphed it into another version of really bad.

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Why the heck would you use a 17 year old game as some sort of a benchmark? It's like saying you could not trade online before internet... it's evolution and you should never give up on trying to improve.

Exactly. The OP is crazy wrong to compare PoE to a 17 year old game and then say why complain that PoE trading is bad when D2 trading was worse. If anything the comparison would be to D3 and the AH which made it easy to trade compared to PoE. The arguments about original D3 failure always gravitate to how the auction house caused D3 to be a failure and that is wrong. The failure of original D3 was the fact that the way that game was coded the D3 client was able to be exploited (hacked) and botted and thus with tons of bots farming 24/7 for BiS gear and gold the average player got buried by the amount of gold that was being generated. When a Joe Schmo casual player like me played D3 and had like 20 million gold playing from Memorial weekend into August and the bots generating 100s of millions of gold there were many players that could easily spend 100 mil or more to buy a BiS set item. That kind of gold flooding the D3 market from bot farming it 24/7 is what lead to the D3 game economy runaway inflation and ruined it.

GGG knew from D1, D2, etc. that there will be cheaters/hackers that will try their hardest to break PoE. So the devs. put everything in the server side simulation (which causes many other QoP problems but that has been talked to death in other threads) and the PoE client doesn't have anything/much that cheaters can exploit (code hack... save for a few bug exploits that were quickly fixed... who still remembers the D1 gold dupe bug?) to gain wealth quickly and flood the PoE market with currency orbs or top end gear. So GGG could easily code into PoE a way to buy from an AFK seller (the proverbial asynchronous trading that has been talked about like forever... even Chris said this was coming soon and that was something like 3+ years ago) and even have their own in game trade search function coded instead of relying on 3rd party methods like poe.trade for searching for PoE gear.

But don't ever be strong armed into thinking that because D3 had an AH that that is why it caused the D3 economy inflation disaster. The AH just made it easy to buy/sell gear so the bots farming 24/7 accelerated the inflation. But without botting in PoE there should be no danger of any kind of run away inflation since GGG has tightly gated the drop rates on currency orbs and BiS gear. Thus the whole argument of "the AH is what ruined the D3 economy" is bullshit and there is no logical reason for GGG to reject an AH for that reason. There are many other reasons such as "we never want trading to be super easy" and such but as it is right now the lack of async. trading in PoE is severely limiting the "fun to play" of this arpg. I don't care where in the world the seller is (PoE is a global game) or why the seller is AFK (he/she has their own life so it's normal to expect a seller to be off-line most of the time) so just let me pay the B/O price for the item for sale so I can be on my way happily using it. So don't ever try to BS me why an easier way to buy/sell in PoE will ruin the game economy.

Pssh, I'm with the OP.

Honestly feels like a lot of D3 players have come over (or gamers from more modernised trading systems in their previous games) and are demanding it's introduced into PoE. Like they don't give a damn if it's right for PoE and regardless the damage its done in the past to other games, but hell bent on fucking it right into PoE.

people gots no idear how good dem poetrades are

back in my day we used to have PONG

you din' get no trades back then

there was just a lil fuzzy dingerdoodle and ya whack it with yur stick

Drops are fine for SSF.I always see trade as just filling in missing items but I think some people buy all there gear,if they do then ssf is never going to be for them.Ssf works for me because I did not trade that much usually it was something like a carcasse jack or some build defining unique.

What I remember about trade in D2 was holding auctions on items,you know 'offer um,offer um+Pul,offer 2 um etc' that made trade more satisfying and you could leave feedback after the trade this was at incgamers unofficial Diablo forum.

We also have to remember that GGG pretty much shot themselves in the foot when they decided to make the API public. They made traders design the mechanics, and not game developers. When/if they one day release a trading improvement of their own, it has to "live up" to the efficiency of PoE trade.

If they release a new system, it will probably be the end of the public API. Will they still demand you to purchase a premium stash tab? If yes, then trading will actually become P2W, because Procurement and Acquisition won't work anymore. If no, it will raise havoc among the payers (with principles and stuff) that bought a premium tab just for trading.

If they make a system that is more limiting than PoE trade, players demanding to be able to buy everything they want, when they want will whine. If they make a system that is more efficient than PoE trade, players that don't see trading as "the source of everything" will whine. Because more efficient trading and better accessibility of gear WILL force them to adjust in game drop rates.

In D2 was and are websites where you can trade items. And it works like a charm, in some aspects even better than poe.trade.

OP - your compare is made on lack of informations.

a couple weeks ago i spent more than half an hour trying to buy chroms to recolor my gear so i could actually use it. how is spamming afkers for 30+ min "fun". and this is not the only time i have had this issue. an ah would let us buy what we want and get back to actually playing the game. i know they are not going to add it based off of their previous statements but some of the arguments against an ah in this thread are jus stupid. trying to trade using trade games in d2 was cancer. d2jsp made it better but i would have preferred an ah. this would also remove price fixers since they couldn't post an item for less than they were actually willing to sell it for.

OP is right. But doesn't necessarily mean current system cannot be improved. I have no problem with it other than the huge amount of fake listings that sometimes frustrate me beyond belief.