Great build, killed a yellow elder today - easy peasy!
Patch notes 3.2.1 says we'll get talismans with beastcrafting. I didn't play then, but seems there will be lots of cool amulets. Do you think one of them would work in this build? % attributes one seems nice.
Sadly no. Even eyes of the greatwolf with 32%increased Attributes isn't better then Astramentis. +100 flat attributes just combo too well with our setup, even more so then the rings.
Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate the work you put into this build, and answering questions!
Also have you followed on youtube, I'd love to see some vids of you clearing other difficult content this league, like Uber Elder or Uber Atziri!
No worries I don't mind answering questions when I have the time although I have more time because I'm not playing this league. I appreciate the ascendancy rework but the beastery mechanic just didn't click with me so when I hop onto poe its to test out some new ideas with the ascendencies not to play through the new league.
Also while this character got a whole lotta buffs this patch none of the new content or league exclusive items actually change the way this character gears or plays so I didn't want to gear up another exact version of the one I played in Abyss league
I did want to take down uber elder and farmed on and off the last two days but I'm having a real rough time trying to get shaper to take guardian maps so I can drive elder into the center. Maybe I'll just run atziri a bit and get an uber atziri set as that should be pretty easy to do
3.2 has buffed this build in almost every aspect. Have updated the guide to reflect this
This build uses alot of cheap unique items, most of the end game best in slot items cost next to nothing.
Can do any map mod and clear all of the content. Many people now have used this build and taken down all guardians, shaper and uber atziri deathless.
Only 2 things, while achievable are more hassle then its worth
- Elemental reflect maps
- Halls of the grandmasters
Defence
- Fortify
- 10k+ ES
- 43% Chance to block
- Guardian evade chance: 53% base, 77% with blind and 84% with blind and jade flask
- 5% ES regenerated per second + faster ES recharge rate and start time
- 4 Distracting totems end up taking most of the damage anyway
- Ignite and shock immunity
The deterministic entropy system of block/evasion in poe won't allow you to 'get unlucky' with a series of hits, you are guaranteed a certain amount of recovery time after they score a hit for your ES recharge to kick in.
Damage
- Inc aoe against normal mobs for mapping 294,424 x 4 = 1,177,696
- Conc effect Shaper DPS with flasks 453,361 x 4 = 1,813,444
- Shaper DPS on a 5-link 325,644 x 4 = 1,302,576
Quad totem has a drop and move playstyle and lets you loot while the totems kill the things spawning from boxes or Abyss cracks. Melee DPS numbers are only active while you are actually attacking but I like that totems keep damaging even while positioning and doing other things
Words cannot describe how much smoother 4 totems feel over 2. I rush it as my first goal even though it does make me considerably squishier since then I don't get the big ES boost from Sanctuary of Thought until uber lab
These choices are quite specific and were all chosen for good reason. I've added sections below to explain gear and gem choices
Gear Breakdown
Spoiler
Weapon
Hand of Wisdom and Action. Kinda need one for any HOWA build to function. Hand of thought and motion are the preupgraded form for leveling. The claws scale damage off intelligence which is why we focus so much of our tree and gear around getting intelligence
Rings
With heirophant turning mana into base ES we are even more incentivised to scale Int then before. These rings have a decent amount of flat mana on them as well as turning each unique item we pick up into a 4% more Int item. This is really solid value as most of the good ES/evasion gear is unique
Gloves
Here is where the synergy really kicks in. Shapers gloves are really the core of the build, their accuracy give us more dps then any other item while also give us massive evasion scaling which is what allows us to reach such high evade chance without evasion focused gear. The build also incidentally gets a hefty amount of strength which is converted into flat mana and %ES through these gloves.
Amulet
Astramentis is best in slot here. Up to 116 Int while also solving Dex and Str problems. Good rares can come close but no rare can beat this item in endgame
Helmet
The vertex. Pretty boring but its unique and got great evasion and ES. +1 to socketed gems is just a bonus that pushes it over the edge as best. When you have some more currency you can buy a high ES roll one but a cheap rolled one will do until then
Chest
The chest is just good. Tri resistances along with evasion and ES. The double ES roll is best but the evasion/ES one isn't that much worse. Due to the rings bonus even when I test with top rolled ES chests Spelndour ends up being better. Spelndour also has the bonus of being easy to chrome into our desired colours
Belt
Since its introduction Cyclopean Coil has dominated the other options for belt slot and luckily its even cheap. 15% increased all stats gives more DPS and ES then the previous options plus the 5% increased damage for lowest stat is wonderful for this build since its lowest stat is around 250-300. The build should end up with Int highest and Dex lowest which means it grants immune to shock and ignite for extra bonus.
Shield
Atziri's mirror is best in slot due to its Int and resistances. It happening to have good evasion, movement speed and extra block is just a bonus
Now it can be upgraded into a fated version gaining base ES and immune to curses which is completely worth losing the 10% block. This also opens the possibility to swap into the soul mantle self flagellation combo for really good damage. Either the prophecy chance is bugged or its just too rare to reasonably aim for at the moment though
Boots
Sin Trek are such good boots. They just have everything we want, Int, Evasion, Move speed and the best ES you'll find. Pity they don't have resistances but they can't be perfect and they still beat any rare
There are two uber lab options that give great DPS on boots. 1-160 lightning damage if you haven't killed recently and 10% penetration if you haven't killed recently so you have a 1/7.5 chance of getting a good one whenever you run lab. I got lucky and got one on my 5th run.
Flasks
Spoiler
Make sure that you have a removes bleed and freeze flask. Removes curse is also nice to have unless you have the Atziri's Reflection upgrade which grants curse immunity and makes it redundant.
Ideally you want a higher "reduced charges used" roll on the silver flask so it has 2 uses on bosses
Vessel of Vinktar penetration/lightning damage variant is cheap and better damage with its shock then wise oak or atziri's but I don't like that it has only 1 use before running out since it means It won't constantly be up during mapping
Since all our resistances will always be balanced wise oak also provides us defense against all elements
Is a solid defensive option too for some extra block
Jewels
Spoiler
Things to remember when looking at jewels
Depending on the rolls on your chest and shield you'll need somewhere between 0-8% all resistances. Grab one jewel give +% all resistance and you're sorted
Make sure none of your jewels have a random "+% fire or cold resistance" on them or it will mess up your Wise oak flask that only works while lightning resistance is highest or tied for highest
You don't want your dex total getting higher then Str or your belt with stop giving you ignite immunity. Prioritise +Str and Int jewels over +Dex and Int ones. Str is generally better then dex anyway since it gives ES
Unique Jewels
Brute force solution is needed for the left hand side of the tree for good Int value
Watchers eye with one of the following
"Gain 18% of Maximum Mana as Extra Maximum Energy Shield while affected by Clarity" Best ES and best value in a jewel. These are stupid expensive though so I would choose one of the other options
"Damage Penetrates 15% Lightning Resistance while affected by Wrath" Better damage then a 4 stat rare jewel
"40% faster start of Energy Shield Recharge while affected by Discipline" improves survivability and also a great option. I do recommend for hardcore players
Pure Talent is great value on par with a top rolled 4 stat jewel even including the 2 extra skill points you need to spend to connect to the scion start. I haven't included that in the tree but after getting one then I recommend connecting to the scion before the lower value clusters like heart of thunder or trickery
Emperor's Mastery is another jewel on par with good 4 stat rares but is generally not worth its high cost
Emperor's Wit is better then a 3 stat jewel but worse then a 4 stat one. Not worth the cost
Might of the Meek In one of the two top left sockets has the value of a 3 stat jewel but loses to a 4 stat one. If they are cheap it might be a good placeholder
Normal Jewels
Priority is Attack Speed > Intelligence > %Increased damage
Rolls are important. Bad attack speed (3%) is still worse then high roll %damage dmg
Prefix List
Attack speed while Holding a Shield
Attack speed with One Handed Melee Weapons
Attack speed with Claws
Increased Energy Shield
Increased Lightning Damage
Increased Totem Damage
Suffix List
Increased Attack Speed
Increased Area Damage
Increased Melee Damage
Increased Damage
+# to Intelligence
+# to Dexterity and Intelligence
+# to Strength and Intelligence
+# to All Attributes
Search for jewels with at least 3 of of any of these and it'll be fine
Abyss Jewels
Normal jewels tend to be better then Abyss jewels. Flat lightning damage gives less damage then the same tier attack speed. Flat ES does beat %ES but we don't need ES all that much.
Normal jewels are much more likely to roll with 4 relevant stats since Abyss jewels don't have as many desirable rolls
Do not underestimate Int nodes. We take very little pure ES nodes because Int = ES + damage. Anything with Int along with other benefits tends to be better. The wise can avoid the temptation to rush heart of thunder and get the good hybrid stuff first instead
Jewel sockets in general are either high or low priority based on if you have a good jewel to put into it. Even when it takes more points the jewels that you can reach through pure Int are much better then the ones through the 4% ele damage or 4% mana ones as the Int contains alot more value
Gem Selection
Spoiler
Chest - Basic totem setup and the main skill. When you only have a 5 link then drop Ruthless.
Against Shaper ruthless starts giving better damage then lightning penetration after getting 26% pen. This build reaches up and over that threshold reasonably easily from tree/jewels/flask. Lightning pen will then only be better on EE maps
/
Helm - You need a level 3 enlighten, vertex and sanctuary of thought before you can run wrath. Before then use herald of thunder. You can pick up some extra "reduced mana reserved" nodes in the tree if you have a low level enlighten and spec out of them later
Gloves - CWDT setup. I like auto casting golem and curse for convenience. I added tempest shield in there because there was space so might as well get +3% block. Enhance is the other option to make enfeeble a bit better
Shield - I put the shield charge in here. Colours can be tricky so can use whirling blades or swap it into somewhere else if thats easier
Boots - This will quickly and easily proc overload and blind on bosses
Claw - Filler space for vaal gems if you wish. Vaal disipline, Vaal grace, Vaal haste are all options. I don't really use vaal gems as they annoy me but Vaal discipline is pretty good on hardcore players since it acts like a panic flask
Pantheon
Spoiler
Soul of the Brine King Pantheon for the stunlock immunity. Evasion prevents stunlock from attacks but its good being able to charge away from a stunning firestorm. None of the other options appeal that much anyway
Soul of Abberath is my preferred minor pantheon bonus. Immunity to burning ground is really handy
Leveling and Gear Progression
Spoiler
Skill Choice
lvl 1-28 Molten strike with ancestral call
lvl 28+ Ancestral warchief taking ancestral bond in the tree for +1 totem
If you prefer a more cookie cutter approach its not hard to get to lvl 70 with flameblast totems. All the early nodes of this build apply to either totem so whichever your preference
Gear Progression
Leveling gear and path into endgame stuff. The highlighted items cost 1c or less. You should be able to start mapping wearing just these highlighted(cheap) items. For a smoother experience keep an eye on level requirements and upgrade right when you hit them
Chest - Zahndethus Cassock Lvl 37 - Geofri's Sanctuary lvl 64 - Atziri's Splendour lvl 75 Weapon - Hand of Thought and Motion lvl 22 - Hand of Wisdom and Action lvl 68 Helm - Doedre's Scorn lvl 39 - Vertex lvl 62 Gloves - Lochtonial Caress lvl 1 - Asenath's Gentle Touch lvl 25 - Shaper's Touch lvl 66 Boots - Shavronne's Pace lvl 32 - Sin Trek lvl 62 Belt - Bated Breath lvl 22 - Cyclopean Coil lvl 68 Shield - Crest of Perandus lvl 8 - Atziri's Mirror lvl 54 Ring - Timeclasp lvl 22 - Perandus Signet lvl 1 Amulet - Astramentis lvl 20
My general priority to upgrade non highlighted gear is Shaper's Touch > Astramentis > Vertex > Cyclopean Coil (14% or 15% increased attributes) > Hand of Wisdom and Action > Perandus Signets > Atziri's Splendour (500+ ES)
Perandus rings used to be higher priority but they are 5x the cost this league from either pricefixing or drastically increased demand so now you buy more of the other stuff first. Still affordable compared to the best in slot rings that other builds shoot for in endgame so its fine.
Once geared there is still room for improvements. Getting a near perfect atziri's mirror and Astramentis is usually achievable. There is also a big ES difference between a min rolled Vertex and a max rolled one.
Defense
The build paths near plenty of life nodes and it doesn't hurt to pick up several of these while leveling then unspec out of them later when you swap into pure ES. How many you get will depend on how squishy you are comfortable being.
I recommend picking up mind over matter while leveling but probably wouldn't bother with the nodes behind it. While using mind over matter the only auras you would be using are clarity and discipline so it can absorb more damage. Hardcore characters in particular will pick up alot more life and probably take Divine Guidance for their first ascendancy point for an early protective mana boost
CI
When your Es is large enough that things are not hitting through it and making you rely on life as a backup swap mind over matter into CI. I generally swap sometime after level 60 when I have enough gear to reach about 5k ES. Just keep a life flask on you and watch for chaos damage until then
Jewels
If you don't have good jewels while leveling then don't take the jewel sockets yet.
Here is a search for 3 stat jewels in beastery. Anything in this list should be fine to use and there are plenty that cost 1c or less. http://poe.trade/search/orumarikaruwok
F.A.Q.
Spoiler
Why Atziri's Mirror not a ES shield?
Spoiler
You cannot remove the mirror without losing damage. Even with a really good (very expensive) ES shield with double ES rolls and triple resistances you still lose 60 Int and 4% more Int worth of damage. If you start cutting ES nodes and adding damage ones to make up that loss you end up with worse ES and damage then before you started.
Just using the mirror is easier, cheaper and also has 6% movement speed, good evasion and +10% block
Rings are expensive!?
Spoiler
The rings have massively inflated in price this league. Either they have been pricefixed or their demand has just increased drastically after the heirophant changes. Timeclasp rings make perfectly fine replacements and you can only lose about 9% damage and 1400 ES so it won't really prevent you from advancing just give you something to save for, even at their current price they are cheaper then the endgame opal/steel rings that most other builds start looking for.
What about a Shaper/Elder ring or amulet?
Spoiler
There are some neat mods on them but no they cannot beat the uniques. Give it a go and boot up the path of building link and craft something that could beat what we currently use. In order to do it you end up needing to craft something so perfect that it doesn't exist in the market. I have never found anything in the market that would beat out the balance of ES and damage that the rings and amulet provide
Why is the nothing in the claw/should I level gems for profit?
Spoiler
I really can't think of anything more that would be worth putting in a CWDT setup. Even the current one has tempest shield which only has the purpose of giving +3% block and might be better off just being another leveling slot.
Because I don't really like using vaal gems I use the 3 claw slots to level gems then sell to other players. Glacial cascade is a good example and when it reaches level 20 you can sell them and use the extra funds to buy upgrades to your gear faster.
The 6 sockets in your offhand is also used for this purpose, leveling popular skill gems or gems that need alot of experience like enlighten
My resistances are not capped, whats wrong?
Spoiler
Check you have Elementalist, Faith and steel and nullification in the tree. The build also needs a single jewel with +% ele resistances to hit the 75% cap. There is a good chance you will beat act 10 wearing a Geofri's Sanctuary which has lower resistances then the splendor and your purity of elements won't be level 20 yet. So you may need 2 resistance jewels until you have those upgrades
I find overcapping for ele weakness maps a waste of resources, you lose alot of ES or damage potential for the 1 in 20 maps that roll with weakness when you can just bring a Bismuth or removes curse flask for the same result. If your clear is slower and you can't reliably have the flask up all the time then just bring both and alternate between them
What about Shock?
Spoiler
Shock is best with builds doing one large hit intermittently. This build splits its damage into 4 different sources and gains a large amount of it damage via attack speed which is the opposite of what makes a good shock
Swapping from ele focus into lightning pen to allow shock loses us 18% damage so in order to make it worth the investment of getting shock chance and assuming that you get and maintain a shock every 2 seconds you also need to be getting *at least* 25% more damage from it.
To get a 25% shock you need to do 5% of their max HP in 1 hit. I have 3.44 attacks per second and 4 totems so if I was doing 5% of their HP in a hit then they are only going to be alive for 1.45 seconds without the shock anyway.
End result is that even with generous assumptions shock increases damage against things that are 0 threat while decreasing damage against anything that is actually a danger
Would Orb of Storms or Frenzy be a better trigger for EO & Blind?
Spoiler
Blind has a 10% chance to occur. Crit on bladeflurry is 18% and orb of storms would be 15% so you'll probably trigger an overload before a blind in either case
Orb of storms would have a 0.33 second cast time and then as far as I could tell hits once per second. This means it takes about 10.33 seconds to apply the blind, provided they remain in range of the orb
Blade flurry benefits from our attack speed and I had 7 attacks per second plus an extra 6 hits on releasing the channel so it has about 13 hits per second if done correctly which should apply blind within that 1 second
Frenzy has 4.4 attacks per second so it takes about 2.3 seconds to apply blind and would increase the dps on this build a decent amount. However keeping track of charges is annoying and frenzy requires an extra second of attacking plus the extra time of you character making sure they are in direct melee range
I considered using ancestral call to help as it adds a decent range to frenzy but I'd need to drop the increased crit gem which lowers the crit chance down to 7% which adds more standing still time to proc everything. Same reason why I didn't drop one of the gems to add increased aoe gem to flurry
All in all I decided that flurry was the way to go. Quick hit procs everything and then you are free to shield charge around dodging anything you feel like dodging. In my experience getting that blind on right at the start and halving their chance to hit for the rest of the fight was safer then any other option
Should I take Whispers of Doom for another curse?
Spoiler
Guardians/Shaper are 80% curse resistant so against them the answer is no. Against other map bosses who are only 60% curse resistant its decent. If adding ele weakness then its 4.4% more damage per point which is above average but it relies on getting hit before taking effect and against most bosses I killed them before taking a hit so it would have no effect.
Should I take X nodes in the tree instead?
Spoiler
Probably not. I've spent alot of time trying to get better value out of the tree and have considered most things. I recommended testing it yourself, open the build in path of building and write down the dps number and ES number and then make whatever changes you feel like and see if those numbers increased or decreased. Then you can link the result in the build and say how much those numbers increased and what you did. Its fun to test these things and there are endless possibilities
For a normal player the easiest thing to cut is the two last jewel sockets (top of tree behind 4% ele and 4% mana nodes) which are not that effective if you don't have as good jewels as I do. I would look to get them very last as they are only worth the bad nodes if the jewel is quite a good one
Heart of Thunder is actually reasonably low value too. If you were looking to boost defense I would cut that cluster and get Unnatural Calm & Written in Blood as good ES sources instead
Which Helm enchant is best/Should I add another aura?
Spoiler
Any of the warcheif totem enchants are good. Increased effect of lightning golem is also good.
Middle tier is curse effect or shield charge attack speed.
Reduced mana reserved enchants have been suggested but I don't think its worth the extra points on aura nodes in the tree to add in anything new to the setup. Things like herald of thunder are too low value and the only actually interesting ones of grace or haste require alot of investment to squeeze into the build and you get more value spending those points elsewhere
Is this build or the molten strike scion build better?
Spoiler
Heirophant Pros
- Generally safer, more block, can keep a distance from danger
- Nice being able to drop something at the edge of the screen without going over there yourself
- 10-20% more ES then scion
- Can run any map mod, only thing that really slows it down are temp chains or ele reflect
- Totems keep killing while you loot or dodge a telegraphed attack
Heirophant cons
- Needs uber lab done to get a chunk of its ES
- Less damage
- Unevadable hazards in Minotaur and a few of the elder guardians is riskier with recharge then leech
Scion Pros
- Higher damage potential
- Expensive items to chase (dying sun, +3 proj helm)
- Can swap into a clearspeed skill (although I also find that annoying so don't)
Scion cons
- 10-20% less ES
- In the face of everything can get awkward at times
- Danger whenever you stop attacking, freeze you didn't notice, mouse stopped working etc
- Can get caught in attacking animation and not dodge obvious telegraphs like slams
- Can't run ele reflect or no leech maps at all which is annoying
I had more fun with the Heirophant but I'm not sure if most of that is that it was my first character of Abyss league. I'm a fan of alc and go so the fact that Heirophant can do any map mod made it more enjoyable then rolling reasonable maps for the scion. The molten balls flying everywhere was pretty neat too though. Scion has the edge on speed for both clearing and bossing but not by a whole lot as the Heirophant would drop a totem and move on knowing that everything would die as it was charge into the next pack
VERY good build mate totally awesome playing it currently 79 and can conferme its easy uber lab farmer from lvl 77 lol just one thing i notice the clear speed is too much low i say WAY bad so ""without changing anything"" i bought 6l staff and spam essence of sorrow on it and using 6l frost bolt totem with it without touching tree just one frost-bolt totem threshold jewel and bingo clear speed is bazinga now great build mate keep it up (Y) also not using those %more int rings too expensive instead well roll le heup i am kinda new here so cant show items but if want to look my currently gear plz look at poe
profile name "nilesh"
"league_sucks" charector TY keep up good work (Y)
What are your thoughts on Incandescent Heart. Less ES but effectively +6% max resistance and more damage.
This has come up a few times so adding my reply to the FAQ in the guide
"Incandescent Heart is a sidegrade that is more complicated. Assuming a max rolled one the change results in
+12.7% dmg - 6ish% lost to cap resistances with jewels = +6.7% dmg
+25% less elemental damage taken
-1250 ES
-1900 Evasion
The small evasion loss isn't noticeable and it does give a bit more damage. 25% less ele damage taken is more then 1250 ES but the ES works on physical hits too so its a judgement call which is better there, a higher ES total can give psychological comfort. The tiebreaker for me is the hassle of needing to find 3 more jewels with +%elemental resistances which makes jewel hunting less flexible"
It is cheaper then the splendor though so It does have that appeal.
Last edited by WaffleT on Mar 16, 2018, 2:14:47 AM
It seems i'm missing something and don't really know what as i'm kinda new. I die in T3 maps quite easily so could someone take a look at my char and setup and let me know what i did wrong ?
Really great build, I like the fact the gear can also be easily used by molten strike howa so heavy investment into the build is well worth it. Currently using soul mantle for the lulz. I am still not sure if the increase in dps out out is worth the defensive sacrifice tho. 14/15 fragments will update once I beat uber elder.
Killed few days ago uber atziri deathless. One of the easiest kills so far. I also thought the trio will make trouble, but easy peasy. The Trash was the toughest part to be honest.
Also have red elder down on a t14(i think) with 2 deaths, one brainafk and the last one because i didnt know the mechanics in final phase.
Atm farming ulab for helm enchant, nobody sells a vertex with warchief enchants ;D
Really solid and kinda cheap build, im pretty sure that i could kill all the bosses also with a 5link splendour. Only negatice aspect is, after u got your gear there is no real upgrade to look for, dunno if atziri's reflection even exists :D
