In all seriousness, is 9k life as hard to get as 25k ES?

I have an RF ES witch with 14k es that only cost whatever it took for my rings to craft es on (1ex each?)

Also most of my gear can get better
Also im not using a 600 es shield (mine is sotp cause the damage over time craft dont seem to work for me)
My armor is a shit shavs so thats like -2k es from not having a 1k es armor
My helm is only 300 es when ive seen 500+
Some of my gear needs more int

This char isnt even lvl 90 yet but i think i could hit 20k es easy if i got above items


Now to compare

I also have a life RF char that doesnt have perfect gear either

I think (i havnt played this char for a while) i have around 7k hp with a belly on
I think i have around 9k with non legacy kaoms on

My gear on this i think is better then my es gear

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CaptainWARLORD wrote:

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bhavv wrote:

Its not my argument, its the very top line in tne ES change manisfesto, and were just discussing that.

But it fucking is. That's what the title says. That's what you argue.

That line in the manifesto was nothing more than referring to the fact that some top-end builds were reaching far more ES than anticipated and thus forces GGG to tune it down.

You just pick what you want out of context, then throw it into the mix and set it as your baseline for an argument that is completely ignoring stated facts.

If you dont like what the thread is about, then maybe refrain from posting in it if its only going to make you mad.

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bhavv wrote:

If you dont like what the thread is about, then maybe refrain from posting in it if its only going to make you mad.

perhaps it is my bias of having been born and raised in the US but I don't think trying to tell people to stop posting is conducive to a discussion, people will post where they want to post and I think that is a good thing,

since i don't like going off topic personally i will try to bring this thread back on its rails,

i don't like balancing Life around Uniques, life builds should at least be viable without Kaom's or Belly

Stop throwing around the words 25k ES people. Nearly nobody has 25k ES. Best of the best of the best perfect best case scenario and you can barely reach 25k. Why is this getting thrown around so much as if 25k ES is standard.

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Lynerus wrote:

I have an RF ES witch with 14k es that only cost whatever it took for my rings to craft es on (1ex each?)

Um...RF ES rings would have Intel+ flat ES+ ES% and cost a fuck ton more than 1 exalt. That's not even mentioning ideally you'd want a opal ring with the for mentioned stats. 1 exalt? ha.

What is with all the exaggerating around here? In one case exagerating the standard pool of ES and in the other exaggerating how cheap a RF ES build ring is. Everybody builds arguments on a bed of straw.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

Stop throwing around the words 25k ES people. Nearly nobody has 25k ES. Best of the best of the best perfect best case scenario and you can barely reach 25k. Why is this getting thrown around so much as if 25k ES is standard.

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Rory wrote:

The Chaos Inoculation Keystone let Energy Shield entirely replace Life as the resource that made up a character's effective health pool, rather than just augmenting it. Because Energy Shield comes inherently on Intelligence-based equipment and has multiple mods that increase the value from the equipment, we saw a far greater growth in Energy Shield values from well-rolled items than we did life bonuses.

This factor, as well as other factors like the increase to Energy Shield from Intelligence and the power of the Discipline Aura, meant that with very well rolled items, a player could achieve colossal values of Energy Shield. We've seen characters reaching over 25,000 Energy Shield while still having the damage output to sufficiently complete all of the content in the game, compared with the 9,000 Life that a very heavily invested Life character with perfect items could reach.

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

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Lynerus wrote:

I have an RF ES witch with 14k es that only cost whatever it took for my rings to craft es on (1ex each?)

Um...RF ES rings would have Intel+ flat ES+ ES% and cost a fuck ton more than 1 exalt. That's not even mentioning ideally you'd want a opal ring with the for mentioned stats. 1 exalt? ha.

I think you might be missing the point, I got the vibe of "even with this suboptimal gear" from Lynerus in which case a "properly priced ring" would not logically be included in his count of 14k ES

"we've seen" does not correleate to everyone running around with 25k ES. Yet multiple posters and threads are floating around babbling about 25k ES.

And I didn't miss the point, I simply chose to focus on the irrelevance of a suboptimal ring for a ES based build. I mean I get he means with a crappy ring he reached 14k...but my thoughts we're focused on ring for ES based RF= less than a exalt which is nonsense. And secondly 14k =/= 25k

My RF build had almost 18k ES with a ROTP and a Ephemeral Edge. It would have taken a very expensive shield ( which you can't even use in a -resists map) and a few other extremely expensive upgrades to even reach 21k, forget 25k.

So why throw around 25k ES so much?? CUz GGG posted the comment?

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

So why throw around 25k ES so much?? CUz GGG posted the comment?

Yes

(for what it's worth, I don't see exiles running around with 9k Life either, 3k-7k is the typical range I've observed, or 5.5k-7k for seasoned/experienced players)

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adghar wrote:

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

So why throw around 25k ES so much?? CUz GGG posted the comment?

Yes

(for what it's worth, I don't see exiles running around with 9k Life either, 3k-7k is the typical range I've observed, or 5.5k-7k for seasoned/experienced players)

Right?

But everyone's obsessed with these best case scenario numbers, and making threads insinuating it's common place.

I accept 25k ES is reachable, and boy oh boy is ES a issue right now. But I'm having a hard time with the focus of peoples arguments being " 25k ES"

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

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adghar wrote:

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

So why throw around 25k ES so much?? CUz GGG posted the comment?

Yes

(for what it's worth, I don't see exiles running around with 9k Life either, 3k-7k is the typical range I've observed, or 5.5k-7k for seasoned/experienced players)

Right?

But everyone's obsessed with these best case scenario numbers, and making threads insinuating it's common place.

I accept 25k ES is reachable, and boy oh boy is ES a issue right now. But I'm having a hard time with the focus of peoples arguments being " 25k ES"

25k es is the equivelant of 9k life. Possible to reach, super expensive.
And I do not consider kaoms heart builds a fair comparison since you lose a 6-link.

To answer the question in the title again, without kaoms heart, YES.

I don't think Rory was using the 25k ES figure to say that everyone was running around with that much ES, he was saying that it was possible to get that amount of ES while still having the DPS to play endgame in contrast to Life builds which have to invest much more compromise to get higher defenses.

They probably feel that most ES builds aren't making compromises to their damage like Life builds typically need to, thus using the most extreme example to illustrate the point.