Damage Over Time Changes - More Information Part 2

How will those changes interact with Earthquake? Will "Aftershock deals 50% more damage" apply to damage over time effects?

And how it will affect Rapid Decay?
Last edited by Harsel on May 12, 2017, 2:25:54 AM
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Vipermagi wrote:
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Nicksiren wrote:
Ugh, some of these answers don't do a very good job explaining. Understanding the changes to damage conversion in particular is giving me a headache, especially when the new "damage effectiveness" modifiers will be on attack skills. Some clarification is required on these again:

There's nothing more to say about the Conversion bit? Two things to take away:

1. Derivative DoTs check base Damage after Conversion. As such, if you only have Physical Damage sources, Molten Strike can still Ignite because it has Phys->Fire Conversion.

2. If you Ignite with Cold Damage rather than with Fire Damage, said Ignite will scale with Cold Damage modifiers. This is similar to Converting Cold damage to Fire damage, where the resulting Fire Damage is also scaled by Cold Damage modifiers.


%Base Damage modifiers on Attack Skills are actually just %More Attack Damage currently. With 3.0, they're changed to actually apply to the Base Damage, and thus will increase or decrease derivative DoT Damage (a Skill that deals 200% of Base Damage also has 2x stronger Ignites than a 100%-Damage Skill).

Damage Effectiveness for Attacks works exactly the same as it does for Spells. It's a multiplier to flat Damage bonuses.


There's nothing to clarify beyond what is said in the post.


About %Base Damage modifiers does it will apply to spells also?
For Example BV:
Now: MORE spell DAMAGE per blade.
New: MORE BASE DAMAGE per blade. ??? (Of course only for BV)
Last edited by CBEToffOP on May 12, 2017, 3:12:11 AM
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Mark_GGG wrote:
Since people have asked about it, here's another pair of images showing a case involving damage conversion:
Old System


New System




I've also edited this into my initial picture post on page 4.


Thank you for explaining it!
I wonder if with the dot changes, new passives and what not, will it be possible to build around Voretx's dot to do the "main damage". That would be a build I would like to play.
- I didn't say half the shit people quote from me - Albert Einstein
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CBEToffOP wrote:
About %Base Damage modifiers does it will apply to spells also?
For Example BV:
Now: MORE spell DAMAGE per blade.
New: MORE BASE DAMAGE per blade. ??? (Of course only for BV)

Blade Vortex's modifier is not a Base Damage modifier, so no, the changes to Base Damage modifiers do not apply to Blade Vortex.
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Vipermagi wrote:
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CBEToffOP wrote:
About %Base Damage modifiers does it will apply to spells also?
For Example BV:
Now: MORE spell DAMAGE per blade.
New: MORE BASE DAMAGE per blade. ??? (Of course only for BV)

Blade Vortex's modifier is not a Base Damage modifier, so no, the changes to Base Damage modifiers do not apply to Blade Vortex.


BV was modified in previous patches to counter flask charge gains, but BV output damage was same +/-!
It didn't matter how total damage was calculated because Poison was calculated based on total damage output of BV!
But now when BASE damage MATTERS it will be serious blow to BV+Poison builds to the point where it can't be used at all!

Do you plan re-modify BV? For example Increasing BASE damage by, and decreasing MORE damage per blade, so Total Damage output would be the same as now!?
Otherwise i don't see how Poison could be useful on such LOW BASE damage skills! Except if there are passives which gives flat additional damage to Poison, otherwise id doesn't matter how many passives with Increase/More you can get, with LOW BASE damage it still be insignificant to PRIMARY DAMAGE.
Last edited by CBEToffOP on May 12, 2017, 8:55:51 AM
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neurolergic wrote:
I wonder if with the dot changes, new passives and what not, will it be possible to build around Voretx's dot to do the "main damage". That would be a build I would like to play.


From the information provided, I do believe that making builds around the DoTs on any particular skill will be equally viable with any other. They may all be viable or all not viable, but I doubt that some will be viable and not others, excepting the skills like Viper Strike and Puncture that are designed to work differently.

Whether or not DoT builds are viable in 3.0 will be dependent on the passive tree support making the opportunity cost of focusing on DoTs low enough to be 'worth it'.
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CBEToffOP wrote:
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Vipermagi wrote:
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CBEToffOP wrote:
About %Base Damage modifiers does it will apply to spells also?
For Example BV:
Now: MORE spell DAMAGE per blade.
New: MORE BASE DAMAGE per blade. ??? (Of course only for BV)

Blade Vortex's modifier is not a Base Damage modifier, so no, the changes to Base Damage modifiers do not apply to Blade Vortex.


BV was modified in previous patches to counter flask charge gains, but BV output damage was same +/-!
It didn't matter how total damage was calculated because Poison was calculated based on total damage output of BV!
But now when BASE damage MATTERS it will be serious blow to BV+Poison builds to the point where it can't be used at all!

Do you plan re-modify BV? For example Increasing BASE damage by N%, and decreasing Hit frequency by same N%, so Total Damage output would be the same as was!?


I think that something people are missing is that GGG never intended for all combinations of skills and supports to be viable. BV + Poison builds, as we know them, are very likely dead as a doornail.

Really, given how quadratic scaling affected everything, high-end builds really seem to boil down to 'choose a skill that is the delivery vehicle for your poison/ignite/bleed' (CaStitDVfYPIB). BV apparently was one of the most efficient vehicles, and as such was the popular vehicle to apply the poison.

With these posts, it seems very clear to me that GGG's response has been to change the CaStitDVfYPIB meta to one where DoTs are not just the 'incidental primary damage source' for your build, but a deliberate and appropriately-costed-for-its-return choice for your build.

So yes, socketing one or two gems into your setup to quadratically scale your DPS is dead. Doesn't matter if you're doing this to BV or any other skill. Asking them to not do this is, in effect, asking them to not change the meta at all.

Having said that, if you want to play a DoT-focused BV build, I am sure the tools will be available... for a more appropriate cost (from GGG's perspective). One obvious ramification of GGG's posts is that if you want to use DoTs, your original hits will suffer. So if you're okay with BV doing virtually no up-front damage, it may be possible to still have the DoT side of your build.

Your passive tree is likely to be very different than the current one, though.

Hope this helps.
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mirificel wrote:
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nevel214 wrote:
How will Flameblast's "more spell damage for each stage" interact with ignite? Will the ignite be based on the first stage of flameblast or the stage it was released?
We will be changing Flameblast's "more spell damage for each stage" stat to a generic "more damage for each stage" stat that also affects the ignite.


sounds like flameblast is going to be the one of the best league starters again



don't know needs to be seen, flameblast is losing control destruction and conc effect which will do nothing for the ignite damage we will have to see the tree changes and the new increase burning damage gem, the waiting game is real :)

Don't forget that its also gaining "more burning damage," will still work with crit, and if you put it on a totem you can also use rapid decay. Flameblast->spell totem->chance to ignite->more burning damage->rapid decay->increased area of effect/minion and totem elemental resistance/elemental proliferation.

Pizza stick meta again :/ .

Also, all this mention of adding bonuses to bleed/poison on attack clusters is meaningless when the only support gems (for self cast) that effect both the initial hit and bleed/poison will be void manipulation and increased crit strikes, bleed will have just increased crits + increased crit dot, and poison will not be worth it without either scaling both the initial hit and the dot or using viper strike.
Add some more DOT affect phys damage, and phys damage affect DOT.
Also need MUCH MUCH more support gems for melee physical damage!
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