Let's talk about Ancient Reliquary, shall we?

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SunL4D2 wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Your evaluation of items is biased by trade. There's lots of people who play a stricter ruleset that are finding the items dropped by ARKs at least interesting. Once you start trading in a game like this, you have to give up the idea that you can find something valuable. You can't. If you could find it, everyone else would have too, and you would have traded for it long before you found it.

If you honestly want to enjoy a game where you find stuff for yourself, you have to give up letting other people find stuff for you.

Your suggestion that drop rates should be increased is faulty. You would still consider 99% of the items dropped "vendor trash" because you be able to trade for any of them for next to nothing. Your value system is based on rarity and you want them to make stuff less rare. You'd adjust your value system quite quickly to the new drop rate and come back complaining it wasn't working.

Did you even read my post?

You can find / craft something valuable. Why you mention this?

"If you honestly want to enjoy a game where you find stuff for yourself"
Where I said so? I am not talking about the matter of selffound drops at all.

I don't mind most items being vendor-tier and I didn't said otherwise.

You try to derail a lot of Threads via your bad reading skills and wrong understanding of the subject.

He did read your post and he is right that your evaluation of ARKs is biased :)

You value ARKs based on their monetized value.

You compared their drop rate to drop rate of exalts.
You compared prices of legacy items between leagues.
All you did, was comparing currency-based values.

What Shagsbeard said, is to stop doing that, and you'll find true value of ARK :)
ARKs are rare, so if someone finds one, he can enjoy the fact that he just found one. That's it.
And your suggestion to make them more common would remove even this last value ARKs have due to being rare.

If GGG shared your view on how to evaluate ARK, then yes, we would have ARKs dropping like candies. But we have already this in game, and it's called Chance Orb, which for its small market value can net you something of exponentially higher value if you are lucky.

So having something similar to Chance Orb, but much more rare which nets something impossible to get in game otherwise, is not that bad on its own ;)

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crystalwitch wrote:

Of course the Reliquary Key drops are very rare.

These are a chance of having legacy items drop.
And not just league-specific uniques, but actual items from before they had stat changes.
Do you understand how rare that is?

And more than that, they're foiled versions of those uniques.

If there was a better chance of having the more desireable uniques dropping, then GGG would've made the relics even rarer.
Same again if you could only get relics that were better before the change.

And vice versa, if the keys were more common, then there would be even less chance of the more popular relics dropping.

I've had something like 5 keys drop for me. I've used three of them, sold one and have the other in my stash while I decide what to do with it.

My relics

And do you know what? I'm happy with that.
Currently, the Reliquary Keys are rare enough that they're valuable, yet common enough that they're being regularly traded.

If you don't wish to gamble on a Reliquary drop, then just sell the key.
You talk about bad gambling? It's all bad gambling.
That's pretty much the essence of gambling right there.
You want to gamble? Then you have to accept the chance of failure.

Dude, I never said that I want Reliquary to drop good items more often that trash items. It is perfectly fine. This is how gambling works.

But. Thing is Reliquary Keys are extremely bad gambling. We know this, because people alraedy provided huge samples (many 100+, 200, 300, 600 keys used). And there is examples of good League related gambling (Council in Prophecie or Breachstones in Breach). RKA is not. GG items are too rare compared to price/availablity of the key.

I literally just want more GG T1 rarity items drop and that's it.

I will repeat myself again, I don't give a damn about most drops from Reliquary being vendor trash-tier items.

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ladish wrote:

I bought a foil soul strike for 100c which I thought was a bargain. The loot table can't be that bad.
Also the foil items are meant to be exclusive going into the future (standard) if, for example, there were so many kaom's hearts as to trivialize the price of actual legacy kaoms there would be an uproar.

Again, nobody wants Legacy Kaom's Heart being common drop...ffs it won't trivilize nothing, you would still have to pay many hundred Ex for them, more than in Standard. Just not 3 times more.

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CalamityAOE wrote:

I personally didn't find one this league and it did make me a little salty but given that they rarely give you anything great I wasn't that upset. I'd say it be worse if they made them more likely to give you something gg because then the people that don't find one at all would be pj salt probably.

Then keys would be expensive af. Better solution is to make Keys more common I think.

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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Your evaluation of items is biased by trade. There's lots of people who play a stricter ruleset that are finding the items dropped by ARKs at least interesting. Once you start trading in a game like this, you have to give up the idea that you can find something valuable. You can't. If you could find it, everyone else would have too, and you would have traded for it long before you found it.

If you honestly want to enjoy a game where you find stuff for yourself, you have to give up letting other people find stuff for you.

Your suggestion that drop rates should be increased is faulty. You would still consider 99% of the items dropped "vendor trash" because you be able to trade for any of them for next to nothing. Your value system is based on rarity and you want them to make stuff less rare. You'd adjust your value system quite quickly to the new drop rate and come back complaining it wasn't working.

Did you even read my post?

You can find / craft something valuable. Why you mention this?

"If you honestly want to enjoy a game where you find stuff for yourself"
Where I said so? I am not talking about the matter of selffound drops at all.

I don't mind most items being vendor-tier and I didn't said otherwise.

You try to derail a lot of Threads via your bad reading skills and wrong understanding of the subject.

You're arguing with an ethical-SSF-burnT1Uniques-fuckyouifyoutrade player it's worse than Jehovah's Witness at your door

Makes sense :P

quite sure the keys are more rare the exalted orbs. i have found more exalted orbs than keys in legacy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/69ds33/results_from_opening_738_ancient_reliquary_keys/

700+ keys opened. Guess what't the result?

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kompaniet wrote:

quite sure the keys are more rare the exalted orbs. i have found more exalted orbs than keys in legacy.

I could say the opposite, but it's just our own RNG.

That said, I've now come to think of relics as collectables; if I get a useful one, all the better.

Alot of people say they are rarer than exalt orbs. Myself have found 4 exalts for sure, 6 divines I think, and 1 key. Anyways, you could quite possibly have multiple lvl90 toons and see 0 keys. IMO thats a bit too low when the chances are that you will get an item from the key that is a worse version of an item you already have found multiples of. But this have been brought up many times already so dont hold your breath for any changes to droprate of keys or a higher chance of legacy items from the chest that are actually better than the version currently in game.

I guess the general population of this game is either naive or never has gabled in his/her life.

To summ the topic up: I want my legacy T1 drops, i want them now, and i wants lots of them.

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Daiena wrote:

I guess the general population of this game is either naive or never has gabled in his/her life.

To summ the topic up: I want my legacy T1 drops, i want them now, and i wants lots of them.

That's actually not what we're saying at all. From the numerous threads on this topic the theme has been pretty consistent: yes there's junk in the ARK and we don't have a problem with that. It's just that the drop rate for an ARK is so incredibly low it makes me wonder why GGG bothered at all.

Nobody seems to be saying I want my guaranteed legacy T1 unique. They just want the experience of maybe getting something.

It baffles me why GGG introduced a feature to a league that so many people aren't getting to experience. If the loot table was different and the ARK only contained end game gear then I could understand it. There are plenty of players that don't get to Shaper and so don't have a crack at the uniques he drops. Fair enough, that's an enticement for the more elite players.

But considering the loot table is about on par with your regular unique drops, i.e. mostly vendor trash but with the very slight chance at something cool, why make them so rare.

It leaves a sour taste in my mouth because so much else was done right this league but this is a carry over of mistakes made in the past that I thought GGG had since evolved past.

I think the problem lies in Chris' initial analogy with CCG foil cards. While there are elite players out there that do like to collect sets of things and rarities, the majority of the player base are players first, with a strong predilection for hoarding. When players can't participate and play, you are giving them a negative experience and making them question why they should keep playing or supporting your game.

I think it's fair to say many players here are having that negative experience and feel that it could have been handled better and it wouldn't have broken the game, particularly as everything is heading to standard shortly anyway.

The only reasons I can think that the drop rate hasn't been improved is because:

a. GGG have a fragile ego and don't often like to admit when they screwed the pooch on something.
b. ARKs are scheduled to be part of the main game ongoing so there's endless time to drop other keys.

I also find Exalts way more common than ARK, found 19 Ex, 2 Shavs and 2 keys this league. Before finding my first ARK I thought my lootfilter was bugged since I was watching streams where keys kept dropping but then finally one dropped and my filter was working as intended :)