Let's talk about Ancient Reliquary, shall we?

Rncient Reliquary Keys are almoust as rare as Exalted orbs yet relics drops are weighted so badly - 99% of the time you will get vendor trash-tier item. It's always better to sell the key than trying to use them. Massive gambling is pretty much useless as well (many people turned in 200+ Keys and still found themselves at huge loss). Yet this keys are almoust as expensive as Exalted orbs.

Keys are really bad gambling while we always had goood gamblings in Leagues (Breachstones in Breach, Council in Legacy, etc. etc.).

Reliquary Keys are pretty much memes now - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co-Li1Dv_-g

Every Legacy item that matters is much more expensive in Legacy than in Standard (Kaom's Haert, Vinktar, Shavronne Wrappings, IIQ gem, Facebreakers, etc. etc.)

Ridiculously small chance to get good relic items combined with high rarity of the key leads to small supply and therefore insane prices. People who own Tier 1 Rarity Relics can literally price them at whatever they want.

GGG could fix this issue by increasing Reliquary Keys droprate, so keys would be cheaper and we would see more GG items on the Market naturally driving prices of crazy items down. Or adjust droprate of this crazy items (VoV, KH, Shavs and few others) a little bit.

I am really salty that it's easier to get Legacy items in Standard than in LEGACY League. I don't want 20 Ex Kaom's Heart or anything, I just don't want this items to be many times more expensive than in Standard LOL.

But it seems like this is too late anyway and honestly, who cares about filler League? Certainly not GGG. There is so many improvements to be made which would significantly improve Legacy League experience and Devs ignored all of them (from Leaguestone management screen improvements to buffs for some of the most underwhelming Leaguestones).

Your evaluation of items is biased by trade. There's lots of people who play a stricter ruleset that are finding the items dropped by ARKs at least interesting. Once you start trading in a game like this, you have to give up the idea that you can find something valuable. You can't. If you could find it, everyone else would have too, and you would have traded for it long before you found it.

If you honestly want to enjoy a game where you find stuff for yourself, you have to give up letting other people find stuff for you.

Your suggestion that drop rates should be increased is faulty. You would still consider 99% of the items dropped "vendor trash" because you be able to trade for any of them for next to nothing. Your value system is based on rarity and you want them to make stuff less rare. You'd adjust your value system quite quickly to the new drop rate and come back complaining it wasn't working.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Your evaluation of items is biased by trade. There's lots of people who play a stricter ruleset that are finding the items dropped by ARKs at least interesting. Once you start trading in a game like this, you have to give up the idea that you can find something valuable. You can't. If you could find it, everyone else would have too, and you would have traded for it long before you found it.

If you honestly want to enjoy a game where you find stuff for yourself, you have to give up letting other people find stuff for you.

Your suggestion that drop rates should be increased is faulty. You would still consider 99% of the items dropped "vendor trash" because you be able to trade for any of them for next to nothing. Your value system is based on rarity and you want them to make stuff less rare. You'd adjust your value system quite quickly to the new drop rate and come back complaining it wasn't working.

Ah yes, the old "forget a significant portion of the game exists, then this makes perfect sense" argument.

No, reliquary keys have a very bad return for their rarity. That has nothing to do with trade; that's just how it is. They're supposed to be a major feature of the league, yet they're among the rarest drops in the game and they also don't give you very good items (this is independent of trade; I would be disappointed to get a legacy Taryn's Shiver in HC SSF just as I was disappointed in LSC). They could have been completely left out of Legacy league and it wouldn't have changed my league experience at all. That is a failure in design.

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Maswasnos wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Your evaluation of items is biased by trade. There's lots of people who play a stricter ruleset that are finding the items dropped by ARKs at least interesting. Once you start trading in a game like this, you have to give up the idea that you can find something valuable. You can't. If you could find it, everyone else would have too, and you would have traded for it long before you found it.

If you honestly want to enjoy a game where you find stuff for yourself, you have to give up letting other people find stuff for you.

Your suggestion that drop rates should be increased is faulty. You would still consider 99% of the items dropped "vendor trash" because you be able to trade for any of them for next to nothing. Your value system is based on rarity and you want them to make stuff less rare. You'd adjust your value system quite quickly to the new drop rate and come back complaining it wasn't working.

Ah yes, the old "forget a significant portion of the game exists, then this makes perfect sense" argument.

No, reliquary keys have a very bad return for their rarity. That has nothing to do with trade; that's just how it is. They're supposed to be a major feature of the league, yet they're among the rarest drops in the game and they also don't give you very good items (this is independent of trade; I would be disappointed to get a legacy Taryn's Shiver in HC SSF just as I was disappointed in LSC). They could have been completely left out of Legacy league and it wouldn't have changed my league experience at all. That is a failure in design.

That's not a failure in design. Obviously a lot of people enjoy using them otherwise their price would be much lower. Just because you personally don't enjoy it doesn't make it bad design.

See... you prove my point. "Bad return". You're basing their value on YOUR experiences. That's called bias, and it has everything to do with trade. When you trade, your value system becomes "what can I get for this on the market?" If an item is too common, you can't get anything for it... and it becomes "vendor trash" or a "bad return".

You can't get anywhere until you realize that.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Rncient Reliquary Keys are almoust as rare as Exalted orbs

I wish this was even remotely true...

Exalted Orbs dropped: 13
Reliquary Keys dropped: f*ck all

;)

Actually, the statistics hold that they're about equal. Someone did 200 Mao Kun maps and his ratios came out pretty much what the "data mined" values were, and exalts:keys was pretty close to 1. 13:0 is an aberration.

In the quiet words of Winston Churchill, "I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself." ;)

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tomay wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Rncient Reliquary Keys are almoust as rare as Exalted orbs

I wish this was even remotely true...

Exalted Orbs dropped: 13
Reliquary Keys dropped: f*ck all

;)

13 ex drops is not anywhere close to normal so really overall you're better off with your RNG.

I think that, based on what I've seen and experienced, the return rate for keys is an average 50%. Meaning you lose half value on average if you use the key.
Not worth opening unless you already have your builds done.