Submit to sky daddy eh? That's the best the omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent Guy could come up with? I've made you sick, now come serve me for the cure? Pass. Besides, Islam has a much more comprehensive plan for submission, why should I be a beast of burden for Jesus instead of Allah?
God made man perfect. Man made himself sick by sinning and taking on the consequence of sin, which is death.
At that point, God could have said, OK whatever you made your choice, now live with the consequences, but He didn't. Instead he took His own son, sent him to earth in human form to be ridiculed, persecuted, tortured and killed while He did nothing but to try to help everyone and serve mankind. God sent him as a sacrifice to pay the price of man's sin, so that we could have a way out of our mistake.
And now, 2000 years later people are still rejecting this gift and trying to mock God and those who speak His message of peace and forgiveness.
Well, time's a comin' folks, when all those who do so will have to answer to God for all that.
Of course, you could just accept his gift of forgiveness and have your slate wiped clean forever, and be given eternal life with Him in heaven. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Last edited by Darkfyre on Apr 17, 2017, 12:14:37 AM
God made man perfect. Man made himself sick by sinning and taking on the consequence of sin, which is death.
Massive logic fail. Perfect people don't make themselves sick. Furthermore, God KNEW exactly what would happen, and he still chose to design us the way he did. You can't say that everything good about us is from God and everything bad is our own fault, that just doesn't make any sense.
"
At that point, God could have said, OK whatever you made your choice, now live with the consequences, but He didn't.
More logic fails. Who created the consequences, and knew how it would turn out before we were even created? If you want to give God credit for creating the garden of Eden, you also have to accept that he created the talking snake, knowing exactly what the outcome would be. He then got so upset with us over the situation that he literally created that he punished all of mankind from that point on with an eternity of hellfire and damnation when we die. Not all that loving or merciful tbh.... At least the Islamic version says that God was only angry with Eve for eating the apple and didn't take it out on the rest of us like a petulant child.
"
Instead he took His own son, sent him to earth in human form to be ridiculed, persecuted, tortured and killed while He did nothing but to try to help everyone and serve mankind. God sent him as a sacrifice to pay the price of man's sin, so that we could have a way out of our mistake.
Just to get this straight; Your all loving, all forgiving, all merciful God set up a situation in which someone ate some fruit they weren't supposed to. He then got so angry about it that he decided the rest of us would burn in hell for all eternity, and the only way he could think of to forgive us was to have a son, have him tortured and killed, and for us to spend our lives worshpping said son?
"
And now, 2000 years later people are still rejecting this gift and trying to mock God
I wonder why....
"
those who speak His message of peace and forgiveness.
Peace, forgiveness, genocide, biological terrorism, infanticide, rape (and forced marriage of women to their rapists), the list goes on. Jesus said he came to uphold the laws of Moses. Have you ever actually read them? Peace and forgiveness barely get a mention, it's about death, destruction, and vengeance.
"
Well, time's a comin' folks, when all those who do so will have to answer to God for all that
Which God? You and me aren't so different. I'm an atheist with regards to all religions, and you're an atheist with regards to all religions except one. With all of the countless Gods humanity has worshipped over the years, what are the chances that you picked the right one?
"
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
k m8.
Last edited by MonstaMunch on Apr 17, 2017, 11:23:14 PM
Which God? You and me aren't so different. I'm an atheist with regards to all religions, and you're an atheist with regards to all religions except one. With all of the countless Gods humanity has worshipped over the years, what are the chances that you picked the right one?
k m8.
Especially considering the uncanny similarities (ie. the pure plagiarism) that exist between so many of them. There are elements of Egyptian mythology in Christ's story, for example, that go back far longer than 33 AD.
God made man perfect. Man made himself sick by sinning and taking on the consequence of sin, which is death.
Massive logic fail. Perfect people don't make themselves sick. Furthermore, God KNEW exactly what would happen, and he still chose to design us the way he did. You can't say that everything good about us is from God and everything bad is our own fault, that just doesn't make any sense.
Why doesn't that make any sense? You say that yet it does make perfect sense.
At that point, God could have said, OK whatever you made your choice, now live with the consequences, but He didn't.
More logic fails. Who created the consequences, and knew how it would turn out before we were even created? If you want to give God credit for creating the garden of Eden, you also have to accept that he created the talking snake, knowing exactly what the outcome would be. He then got so upset with us over the situation that he literally created that he punished all of mankind from that point on with an eternity of hellfire and damnation when we die. Not all that loving or merciful tbh.... At least the Islamic version says that God was only angry with Eve for eating the apple and didn't take it out on the rest of us like a petulant child.
A couple of things..
God created us perfect. He also created Lucifer perfect. The name Lucifer means being of light. But He also gave us all free will. Now what is free will without the ability to choose something other than God intends? If we could only choose what God wants, that wouldn't be free will. That would be God controlling us. God doesn't do that. So He gave us free will, because He wanted us to choose Him of our own volition. If we choose Him but we had no choice but to choose Him then that doesn't mean anything.
Unfortunately, Lucifer chose himself over God. So God cast him out of heaven along with all the angels who chose to follow Lucifer, and now he is called "Satan" (which literally translates to "The Enemy"). Satan is the only true enemy of God and of mankind. He tries to twist and pervert everything God wants and creates. It was Satan that, out of spite and malice toward God, after being cast out, deceived Adam and Eve into going against God. This was still Adam and Eve's choice in the end though. They could still have chosen to follow God and not what Satan told them. But they didn't. Free will. So, at this point, humans of their/our own free will fell from perfect beings to flawed ones.
Also, it's not wise to compare the Almighty to a petulant child. A word of warning and wisdom..
Instead he took His own son, sent him to earth in human form to be ridiculed, persecuted, tortured and killed while He did nothing but to try to help everyone and serve mankind. God sent him as a sacrifice to pay the price of man's sin, so that we could have a way out of our mistake.
Just to get this straight; Your all-loving, all-forgiving, all-merciful God set up a situation in which someone ate some fruit they weren't supposed to. He then got so angry about it that he decided the rest of us would burn in hell for all eternity, and the only way he could think of to forgive us was to have a son, have him tortured and killed, and for us to spend our lives worshiping said son?
Ok, a few more things..
First, God didn't create hell for mankind. Hell was always only intended for Satan and his (now) demons (fallen angels). When man (often used in the Bible to mean mankind or humans, btw, to all you feminists) chose to follow Satan instead of God, they automatically grouped themselves/ourselves with those destined for Hell. God didn't create the situation where Adam and Eve defied Him. He created the situation where they had a choice. Adam and Even went against God of their own free will. God didn't just decide that man would go to Hell after man committed sin. God always intended Hell to be a place to lock away anything that was against Him. Man simply made a choice that landed them in that category.
Also, if you disagree with the way in which God provided us an escape route, that is kind of like one of those spoiled rotten teenagers you see on TV who cry and insult their parents when they are given a car for their birthday, while there are kids in the world who starve to death on a regular basis. But maybe you could come up with a better way? But first you'd have to have all the knowledge and wisdom of God, because there are undoubtedly things taken into consideration that none of us even are aware of or could comprehend... so I tend to seriously doubt you could come up with a better way. I'm pretty sure that siding with the only perfect being in existence is a safe bet on this matter.
those who speak His message of peace and forgiveness.
Peace, forgiveness, genocide, biological terrorism, infanticide, rape (and forced marriage of women to their rapists), the list goes on. Jesus said he came to uphold the laws of Moses.
Ohhhh k...
First off, God has never committed genocide. Lawful punishment is also not terrorism. God has never committed rape nor any other sin. Sin is apart from God. It is not within His nature to sin and He has never done so. Let's just get that out of the way right now.
Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, not "uphold". Matthew 5:17-18
Also, Jesus Himself is the fulfillment of the Law (Matthew 26:28, Mark 10:45, Luke 16:16, John 1:16, Acts 10:28, 13:39, Romans 10:4) The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross ended forever the need for animal sacrifices and other aspects of the ceremonial law.
Well, time's a comin' folks, when all those who do so will have to answer to God for all that
Which God? You and me aren't so different. I'm an atheist with regards to all religions, and you're an atheist with regards to all religions except one. With all of the countless Gods humanity has worshiped over the years, what are the chances that you picked the right one?
There is only one God. You don't have to worry about picking the wrong god because there is only one. You can, of course pick nothing which is also wrong. Or you can pick yourself. Or you can pick The Enemy (please don't), which is also very wrong.
I am not an atheist.
"
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"
you're an atheist with regards to all religions except one
That is not what an atheist is. You can't be a theist and an atheist. It doesn't work like that.
Last edited by Darkfyre on Apr 18, 2017, 1:30:16 PM
God made man perfect. Man made himself sick by sinning and taking on the consequence of sin, which is death.
Massive logic fail. Perfect people don't make themselves sick. Furthermore, God KNEW exactly what would happen, and he still chose to design us the way he did. You can't say that everything good about us is from God and everything bad is our own fault, that just doesn't make any sense.
Why doesn't that make any sense? You say that yet it does make perfect sense.
At that point, God could have said, OK whatever you made your choice, now live with the consequences, but He didn't.
More logic fails. Who created the consequences, and knew how it would turn out before we were even created? If you want to give God credit for creating the garden of Eden, you also have to accept that he created the talking snake, knowing exactly what the outcome would be. He then got so upset with us over the situation that he literally created that he punished all of mankind from that point on with an eternity of hellfire and damnation when we die. Not all that loving or merciful tbh.... At least the Islamic version says that God was only angry with Eve for eating the apple and didn't take it out on the rest of us like a petulant child.
A couple of things..
God created us perfect. He also created Lucifer perfect. The name Lucifer means being of light. But He also gave us all free will. Now what is free will without the ability to choose something other than God intends? If we could only choose what God wants, that wouldn't be free will. That would be God controlling us. God doesn't do that. So He gave us free will, because He wanted us to choose Him of our own volition. If we choose Him but we had no choice but to choose Him then that doesn't mean anything.
Unfortunately, Lucifer chose himself over God. So God cast him out of heaven along with all the angels who chose to follow Lucifer, and now he is called "Satan" (which literally translates to "The Enemy"). Satan is the only true enemy of God and of mankind. He tries to twist and pervert everything God wants and creates. It was Satan that, out of spite and malice toward God, after being cast out, deceived Adam and Eve into going against God. This was still Adam and Eve's choice in the end though. They could still have chosen to follow God and not what Satan told them. But they didn't. Free will. So, at this point, humans of their/our own free will fell from perfect beings to flawed ones.
Also, it's not wise to compare the Almighty to a petulant child. A word of warning and wisdom..
Instead he took His own son, sent him to earth in human form to be ridiculed, persecuted, tortured and killed while He did nothing but to try to help everyone and serve mankind. God sent him as a sacrifice to pay the price of man's sin, so that we could have a way out of our mistake.
Just to get this straight; Your all-loving, all-forgiving, all-merciful God set up a situation in which someone ate some fruit they weren't supposed to. He then got so angry about it that he decided the rest of us would burn in hell for all eternity, and the only way he could think of to forgive us was to have a son, have him tortured and killed, and for us to spend our lives worshiping said son?
Ok, a few more things..
First, God didn't create hell for mankind. Hell was always only intended for Satan and his (now) demons (fallen angels). When man (often used in the Bible to mean mankind or humans, btw, to all you feminists) chose to follow Satan instead of God, they automatically grouped themselves/ourselves with those destined for Hell. God didn't create the situation where Adam and Eve defied Him. He created the situation where they had a choice. Adam and Even went against God of their own free will. God didn't just decide that man would go to Hell after man committed sin. God always intended Hell to be a place to lock away anything that was against Him. Man simply made a choice that landed them in that category.
Also, if you disagree with the way in which God provided us an escape route, that is kind of like one of those spoiled rotten teenagers you see on TV who cry and insult their parents when they are given a car for their birthday, while there are kids in the world who starve to death on a regular basis. But maybe you could come up with a better way? But first you'd have to have all the knowledge and wisdom of God, because there are undoubtedly things taken into consideration that none of us even are aware of or could comprehend... so I tend to seriously doubt you could come up with a better way. I'm pretty sure that siding with the only perfect being in existence is a safe bet on this matter.
those who speak His message of peace and forgiveness.
Peace, forgiveness, genocide, biological terrorism, infanticide, rape (and forced marriage of women to their rapists), the list goes on. Jesus said he came to uphold the laws of Moses.
Ohhhh k...
First off, God has never committed genocide. Lawful punishment is also not terrorism. God has never committed rape nor any other sin. Sin is apart from God. It is not within His nature to sin and He has never done so. Let's just get that out of the way right now.
Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, not "uphold". Matthew 5:17-18
Also, Jesus Himself is the fulfillment of the Law (Matthew 26:28, Mark 10:45, Luke 16:16, John 1:16, Acts 10:28, 13:39, Romans 10:4) The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross ended forever the need for animal sacrifices and other aspects of the ceremonial law.
Well, time's a comin' folks, when all those who do so will have to answer to God for all that
Which God? You and me aren't so different. I'm an atheist with regards to all religions, and you're an atheist with regards to all religions except one. With all of the countless Gods humanity has worshiped over the years, what are the chances that you picked the right one?
There is only one God. You don't have to worry about picking the wrong god because there is only one. You can, of course pick nothing which is also wrong. Or you can pick yourself. Or you can pick The Enemy (please don't), which is also very wrong.
I am not an atheist.
"
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"
you're an atheist with regards to all religions except one
That is not what an atheist is. You can't be a theist and an atheist. It doesn't work like that.
If we were truly honest with ourselves the only conclusion to the questions 'is there a God?', 'Is there life after death?' is very simply 'I don't know". If you were to answer honestly if jesus as you think of it is really the case you could only say 'I don't know'. That's not an attack on you're beliefs btw just stating an obvious fact.
So the important point of life isn't to attempt to definitively answer these big questions but instead to come to peace with the reality that we will likely never know, come to peace with the understanding that this reality is all we'll ever know in our life.
A word to describe coming to this understanding of our limitations and the absolute nature of our reality could be 'enlightenment'.
A word to describe coming to peace with these facts could be called 'Nirvana'.
Buddhism doesn't make any promises like eternal life after death or any thing other than what reality offers but it does offer tools to help us come to an understanding and then a peace, a true contentment, with our place in reality.
'Suffering' as used in Buddhism doesn't represent literal pain but rather a longing. A longing for a better TV, graphics card, car can represent this kind of suffering if that longing negatively affects your emotional well being even if it's in a subtle way. This kind of longing I see often in people who give themselves and their minds to a theistic philosophy.
Buddhism can greatly help cease that kind of longing that will never be requited in this life and as we already intimately understand even if we won't admit - we have no idea if it ever will be.
You could replace that dissatisfaction with a contentment and a peace that embraces where you are in your life and replaces that longing with a new appreciation of life and those you love.
Last edited by GeorgAnatoly on Apr 18, 2017, 1:58:04 PM
So the important point of life isn't to attempt to definitively answer these big questions but instead to come to peace with the reality that we will likely never know, come to peace with the understanding that this reality is all we'll ever know in our life.
Well, I can tell you that from reading His Word, both God and I wholeheartedly disagree with you, and I sincerely hope that you will eventually realize the truth before it is too late and I'm sure God wants that as well - even more than I.
So the important point of life isn't to attempt to definitively answer these big questions but instead to come to peace with the reality that we will likely never know, come to peace with the understanding that this reality is all we'll ever know in our life.
Well, I can tell you that from reading His Word, both God and I wholeheartedly disagree with you, and I sincerely hope that you will eventually realize the truth before it is too late and I'm sure God wants that as well - even more than I.
I truly hope you come to an understanding with the reality that you may never know in this life if your vision, however beautiful, of God is correct or not and not go your entire life having your view of the beauty of this life in front of you clouded by the specter of longing for something that may never come.
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Last edited by VictorDoom on Apr 18, 2017, 5:03:48 PM
