[3.4] Pure Uniques Molten Strike HOWA. 4 Mill Shaper DPS, Good Defences

EDIT: Found out the issue with the pob numbers, you have to set the projectile travel distance for point blank manually.
Last edited by Asdcvbn on Aug 1, 2018, 11:38:22 AM






I decided to stick with Scion despite Guardian because I like that Scion is more versatile overall and I like to go fast. Still trying to get a Reflection. Tweaked a little on the passive tree to make Ele Reflect mitigated.

[Watcher's Eye] with 50% Ele Reflect Reduction +
[Yugul Minor God] 25% Reflect Reduction +
[Ash, Frost, and Storm Passive] 10% Ele Reflect Reduction

85% reduction seemed to be a breakpoint, as even with 75% reduction I found I could still one-shot myself before Leech kicked in but with 85% it's not a factor at all(Atziri aside).

EDIT: Even 80% reduction is enough.
Last edited by Vekkul on Aug 16, 2018, 6:53:56 PM
thanks for the guide, i'm really enjoying it so far ! It feels really fast and smooth to play it
Wanted to post an update....

Guardian Lvl 96:

https://pastebin.com/rwSZqJSk

Key stats:

14,333 ES (including Incandescent Heart, 25% of ele hit damage taken as chaos)
4,844,868 shaper dps
9,693.5 ES/sec sustain (when you have SOMETHING to hit)

Not really sure how this compares to Brutus's Lead Sprinkler, or if that is available for a Guardian. I think this is a good combination of ES, sustain, and dps. There are builds that have more dps (life stat stick), or more ES (LL RF). This is a pretty good combination of all three. Not that there aren't videos of people doing uber elder deathless with considerably less, because there are. But this is pretty strong.

I've done ele reflect maps with with just the Yugul and the +30 ES on hit deathless, but it does throttle me. Don't forget about fortify. It also lowers the damage taken on hit, including reflect. But typically, I sell those maps. There is no reason for me to run them. As far as Atziri, just swap ele focus out and put concentrated effect in. You won't hit the mirror form. Zero regen maps are not an issue either. I have mana leech, and I just swap my Lvl 21 clarity for Lvl 1 Vaal Clarity. Zero leech isn't an issue either with ES gain on hit, but I can't do zero leech and zero regen at the same time. I've never seen that combo yet, though.
Last edited by Zindax on Aug 13, 2018, 4:44:11 PM
Can you double check your Scion Path of Building link please? It currently shows you going to Path of Duelist which does not correspond at all to the Ascendancy section of the guide..

Thanks
Last edited by rochambeau on Aug 11, 2018, 3:29:33 AM
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Completed 13 Challengesrochambeau wrote:
Can you double check your Scion Path of Building link please? It currently shows you going to Path of Duelist which does not correspond at all to the Ascendancy section of the guide..

Thanks


No thats correct. The build has gone through many iterations, the last version I had it set as Raider - Inquisitor - Path of the Templar but I found it better as Raider - Champion - Path of the duelist. I just checked it and the ascendency section of the guide reflects the current iteration
The only thing I would want to improve upon in this build (if possible) is the use of Vaal Pact. At the very end of the game, by the time that your damage and ES gets really high, and by the time you add ES on hit to this build, vaal pact becomes considerably weaker then when you first added it. And the more damage you do, the worse Vaal Pact becomes. Most end game bosses have significant periods where the boss becomes immune to damage for periods of time. And the more damage you do, the more it exacerbates the ratio of time where the boss is immune to damage relative to the time where you can leech from him. Even if you are not at the stage where you can experience this phenomenon personally, you can picture what it is like by relating it to the Kitava fight on t15 Lava Lake. The boss has a very small amount of health, long periods where it is immune to damage, sporadic adds, and continuous damage on the ground. You can see how a Vaal Pact build would be weak against a boss like this.

In a lot of builds, people brag about the damage they do, as if it actually helps. But the problem is, unless you have some dualist overleech in your build, higher damage only serves to reduce the amount of time that you can effectively leech. Even on a boss like uber elder (where elder and shaper have over 18 mil health each), having more damage isn't that great. Let's say you are like me and do 4.845 mil shaper dps. Each phase of dropping either elder or shaper 25% takes about a second. There are builds out there that do 16 million dps. But what possible point does that serve? Lowering the phase time to 1/4 of second instead of 1 second per 25% boss health? Now you only get 1/4 of a second to leech instead of 1 second. Sure the phase is shorter, so less damage goes out, but the more time that is spent where a boss is immune to damage, the less effective vaal pact becomes.

Now vaal pact is still effective at getting you back up to full ES or health quicker, but that is ONLY when you are already damaging the enemy, and you probably don't need more recovery than you already have at that time. Once your health or ES is capped, the effect of leech is removed.

Also, I'm not sure why it still says that Scion Lead Sprinkler has the most ES. Do you really have more than 14k ES with that character?

I would say if you are doing 4 mil shaper dps, you should get rid of vaal pact. I'm not sure if this is possible, but i would much rather have 10% regen than more 20% leech, especially when I have ES on hit already. Does anyone have any ideas?

I guess there is no efficient way to get Zealot's Oath, let alone all the regen nodes?
Last edited by Zindax on Aug 13, 2018, 5:16:24 PM
"
Zindax wrote:
The only thing I would want to improve upon in this build (if possible) is the use of Vaal Pact. At the very end of the game, by the time that your damage and ES gets really high, and by the time you add ES on hit to this build, vaal pact becomes considerably weaker then when you first added it. And the more damage you do, the worse Vaal Pact becomes. Most end game bosses have significant periods where the boss becomes immune to damage for periods of time. And the more damage you do, the more it exacerbates the ratio of time where the boss is immune to damage relative to the time where you can leech from him. Even if you are not at the stage where you can experience this phenomenon personally, you can picture what it is like by relating it to the Kitava fight on t15 Lava Lake. The boss has a very small amount of health, long periods where it is immune to damage, sporadic adds, and continuous damage on the ground. You can see how a Vaal Pact build would be weak against a boss like this.

In a lot of builds, people brag about the damage they do, as if it actually helps. But the problem is, unless you have some dualist overleech in your build, higher damage only serves to reduce the amount of time that you can effectively leech. Even on a boss like uber elder (where elder and shaper have over 18 mil health each), having more damage isn't that great. Let's say you are like me and do 4.845 mil shaper dps. Each phase of dropping either elder or shaper 25% takes about a second. There are builds out there that do 16 million dps. But what possible point does that serve? Lowering the phase time to 1/4 of second instead of 1 second per 25% boss health? Now you only get 1/4 of a second to leech instead of 1 second. Sure the phase is shorter, so less damage goes out, but the more time that is spent where a boss is immune to damage, the less effective vaal pact becomes.

Now vaal pact is still effective at getting you back up to full ES or health quicker, but that is ONLY when you are already damaging the enemy, and you probably don't need more recovery than you already have at that time. Once your health or ES is capped, the effect of leech is removed.

Also, I'm not sure why it still says that Scion Lead Sprinkler has the most ES. Do you really have more than 14k ES with that character?

I would say if you are doing 4 mil shaper dps, you should get rid of vaal pact. I'm not sure if this is possible, but i would much rather have 10% regen than more 20% leech, especially when I have ES on hit already. Does anyone have any ideas?

I guess there is no efficient way to get Zealot's Oath, let alone all the regen nodes?


My problem with your theory is that it only works on bosses that are doing damage to you while being immune to damage themselves and that situation is not very common. Even your example of Kitava uses damage that is trivial to avoid so you are not actually taking any damage during their immune phase.

Pretty much any point past 1 Mil damage you are just either in a state of leeching or not-leeching. leech is 20% of es per second, vaal pact adds +20% and an ES on hit watchers eye we'll round out as also giving +20% of es per second. 20% alone feels low but all three for 60% is probably overkill depending on your play preferences

The whispers of delve league include a guardian rework, or at least modification so all discussion of the guardian may be obsoleted depending on what direction they take it in

I did play around a bit picking up zealots oath instead of vaal pact and running blood rage but it never seemed quite worth the exchange, I have no idea how you'd get 10% life regen, many points in the tree are pretty mandatory and even getting 4% is a bit of a challenge.

The guardians ES scales best with heavy investment, both in terms of gear and additional levels past 90. The lead sprinkler character has better base ES when considering a character that is still focusing on picking up the damage nodes and not extras, at the end I think mine had 12,500 which was higher then my similarly geared guardian which admittedly was more focused on wanting to match, and then surpass my scions damage numbers rather then investing it all in defense.

If you are cutting damage for ES then guardian will do this best as its damage nodes are less efficient and its defensive ones are more efficient.

It should be noted that endgame damage nodes are generally getting more jewel sockets which is not just chasing higher damage numbers for marginally faster bosses but specifically attack speed. This does happen to be the best source of damage but its noticeable for faster shield charging and attack times for clearspeed which is typically what you spend much of your time doing

From my experiences, those situations are not uncommon. I see them in plenty of guardian bosses, both shaper and elder t16 guardians. And I definitely see it on t15 Kitava Lava Lake with scary mods. In fact, I think its more the rule than the exception. For some reason, I think you are under the impression that I do low damage to get my ES numbers.

Again, here is my PoB:

https://pastebin.com/auhvmybM

Those numbers I posted are accurate. I have that much ES and damage. It's mostly from having 1674 int through good gear.

When you go on uber elder runs, and you fight the Eradicator on t16, for instance, how long does it take you to take away a third of his health? Like a second? Then, he is immune to damage and leech does not work. Still, he does lots of damage, and you have to wait for the next phase or for a mob to show, or for the eradicator to show again. Fortunately, I think my ES on hit works. But I'd say that's the majority of relevant situations. Most relevant bosses will interrupt the amount of damage you do.

It's not that the build is bad (it is close to being one of the best builds in the game), it's that the number of situations where Vaal Pact is advantageous at the very end of the game become greatly diminished (though, that's only my perspective). I'm just trying to report what I feel might stand in the way of this build becoming elite.

I don't think it's easy to get 10% regen, but you did get us this far, so it is worth a try. A sulfur flask does give you 6% (if you are standing in the area - but you also get a few uses). And your Lead Sprinkler build gives that when you pop your sulfur flask easily.

The Sanctity, Shaper, and Master of the Arena nodes are close (1% each). Scion also has some 0.3% or 0.4% regen nodes on the way to a jewel socket. I'm hoping you can swing something.

It looks like there is a reason why the Lead Sprinkler build is good for Scion (or Chieftain). It's hard to make up for 10% increased strength. I do like that that build has regen. It does seem that templar/guardian should stick to HoWA since it doesn't have this disadvantage to overcome. Maybe we give this guy the option for regen. What do you think?
"
Zindax wrote:
For some reason, I think you are under the impression that I do low damage to get my ES numbers.


Sacrificing damage for defense does not equal low damage, it just means that an endgame choice was made between extra damage nodes or extra defensive nodes. If you dropped dreamer and mind drinker and picked up attack speed for damage and clearspeed like I did back when I last played a HOWA character the loss of 1k ES wouldn't now mean your defenses were bad just that they would be higher if you made the other choice.

The type of content you do and personal preference will dictate which ratio you want between boss DPS/clearspeed/Defense its just that every choice in poe has the opportunity cost of not taking the other path

"
Zindax wrote:

Maybe we give this guy the option for regen. What do you think?


Certainly possible. I enjoy crafting builds but at the moment I'm just waiting for 3.4 patch notes. Guardian ascendency changes, passive tree changes, skill gem balances changes and new items all have potential to rework everything

Guardian and molten strike are two things I know they were/are looking at nerfing and new skills could freshen things up a bit.

The trees I have saved using skills that do not use point blank are generally zealots oath builds as the main reason why vaal pact is appealing is that you are right in that area anyway so it only costs 2 points. After the recent rework I crafted a charged dash variant of this build that on paper looked pretty good but I was thinking it might benefit more from the scions extra movement speed and I had other things I wanted to try first so I have not put that one into practice

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