Developer Q&A - Answers Part 2

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Hilldrake wrote:
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MarkoszHU wrote:
"Have you given serious thought to providing people who don't like Labyrinth-style content options to play the rest of the game without going through the content they do not enjoy? Is there some reason it's not being done? Is there any chance it might happen in the future?"


It SHOULDN'T! No pain, no gain.
Seriously, why people nowadays expect to be rewarded without doing actual work?


The problem is not the fact that you HAVE to work, the problem is that the Work is COMPLETELY boring and REALLY, REAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY time-consuming. You need to do the labyrinth for EVERY character you do, in EVERY League, on THREE DIFFICULTIES (i know this is changing). Right now, Labyrinth farming is cool, and stuff, but you should not gate a mandatory mechanic like ascendancy behind it.

The reward on labyrinth is its Chests at the end of the Lab. Ascendancies should be something apart from it. Maybe they should add a system that when you do the Labyrinth ONCE with a specific character, let's say the Witch for example, every new Witch you make have all the points you got on the previous one. So the player thinks into making 2 Witch Builds, he needs to do the Labyrinth and Uber Labyrinth with the first one, so the second Witch he makes will get the points afterwards. This applies to every class, so if he decides to make a Templar, his second templar will gain the points, but he'll still need to do the lab with his first templar. I know this doesn't solve the problem much, but it REALLY decreases the stress for doing the Labyrinth for every freaking character.


what? time consuming? lab run for me, slow runner, takes ~10-15 mins at most. That's 1 hour to get all points compared to many of hours grinding to get character to level 90. It's nothing.
Last edited by rararaputin on Mar 24, 2017, 7:01:54 PM
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Mr_Cee wrote:
what else could be the negotiation of the fact that trading is a significant factor, and thus indeed important also for the success of an ARPG called?


Your wording really confuses me, I can't really make out what you're saying. Diablo 1 and Torchlight 1 didn't have trading if I'm not mistaken, I only played Diablo 2 offline singleplayer, those games were great. I'm not saying trading is not important, only that it's not "critical to the success of a arpg" an arpg can be very successful without trading

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sometimes a rather 'hard' work, but in this case definitively better than making such a single negative answer statement.


My fault, however I'm still too lazy to do so now sorry

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Now - what if like SSF is NOW, without any changes on droprates, is what GGG thinks to be the way their game should be played solo?! Hard stuff indeed; but maybe (ewxpectable from a lot of things they said over time) all "QoL" and easifyings we have now, are just changes/additions they dont wanted in the first place?


Of course it's what GGG thinks is the best way, that doesn't mean anything to me though, whatever game, I don't care how the dev think I should play the game, the "right" way to play it, I play it the way I want to and sometimes that means breaking the game with mods (which I cannot do here).

Of course GGG doesn't want to implement QoL changes, they wanted their game to be very oldschool and hardcore for a niche audience. All I want is options, I believe that a game can both appeal to casuals and hardcore alike if the player can tune their experience of the game to their skill and liking, I don't want PoE to be made easier just for me, in fact the games needs to be harder for certain people. The problem is you can't really have options where there is competitiveness, but I speak my mind regardless

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then, why just don't play a bit more slowly? ;)


Play PoE more slowly? what? anyways, not in the mood at the moment, I'll probably wait for Fall of Oriath

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Your statements were very vague, so I maybe suspected more than good - its really not about you but just against that 'unstoppable' topic of "we want better drops" in all possible shades of a "justification". (maybe my "eyes" were a bit missplaced there, couldnt even say what they should have said)


Drops are fine in the current game I guess because there's trading, that's not what I'm asking for.
Not being able to transfer MTX is kinda a load of crap. It's not hard to transfer account purchase information. If they are going to have a more general market in PoE they could at least make effects more affordable. For the people wanting to join their friends on consoles.
delete please
Last edited by pathfinding on Mar 25, 2017, 9:07:55 PM
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Some things like mercenaries and durability might make a showing if we can work out a good way in the future.


Oh dear, pleaaase that would be awesome! I know this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, but it would be GREAT!!

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We plan to post a minion life/damage/armour spreadsheet and small manifesto about 3.0.0 minion balance improvements next week.


Thank you! Really looking forward to summoner QoL changes, especially spectre improvements. Also curious about new act(s) spectre candidates.

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Given that we want trade, the next question is how easy the trade should be. It seems obvious to jump to the answer of "as easy as possible, of course!" but more care needs to be taken. The easier that trade is, the more trades that traders can perform, increasing the utility that items provide to them. This has a few consequences:

The gap between traders and non-traders widens. This gap is apparent when you see feedback that the game is too hard for some people and too easy for others. Most of the time, that is proportionate to how much they have traded.
Item pricing becomes more skewed towards only very-cheap and very-expensive. Items either become trivially cheap or unaffordable. If you have ever felt that it's going to take too many 1-alch sales to finally save up for that 80 exalt item you want, then this is the reason.
Progression is trivialised. While trading for an item to get a leg up on difficult content is of course fine, being able to trivially and cheaply quadruple your clear speed on a whim isn't something that should be expected on your first character in a league. In addition, the fewer item upgrades you make on a character before capping out your items, the lower chance you have of sticking around for a decent portion of the league. Upgrading items more times (in smaller steps) is more fun than jumping right to the perfect gear.


The existing community tools (combined with our public stash tab API) already put us pretty far down this spectrum, compared to the old days of trade chat. We already view this as a crisis. That is why we are hesitant to add more convenience features.


As much as I have objections to the current trading system, this is actually a very solid explanation in my opinion. I really like the old PoE vibe, when the game used to be slower and harder (including trading, which, apparently, can be easily perceived as a negative), and you needed to pay more attention. I prefer your conservatism to any rapidly implemented steps that would have bad impact on the game. On the other hand, I think you don't need to be bound between radical steps and maintaining the "trading status quo" - even smaller and not very controversial changes could make the trading experience so much better, for example making sure that poe.trade is not flooded with items whose owners are not willing to switch to a different league, or permanently afk... Anyway, as I've said, I get your point. I kind of hope you tend to think the same when it comes to gameplay, because the clear speed meta has also put us "pretty far down" a certain spectrum...
Last edited by pathfinding on Mar 24, 2017, 11:16:08 PM
Dear Chris,

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Item pricing becomes more skewed towards only very-cheap and very-expensive. Items either become trivially cheap or unaffordable.


The reason that worth of item becomes like this is not easy trading only.
The root cause of this problem is that requirement of gear is too low.
Even if the gear is too powerful, character can equip it by just reaching half of lv70.
And to satisfy the requirement of status is also easy.
Only the strongest gear is desired because all character will be able to equip all gears very easily.

To solve this problem, you must raise the requirement of powerful gear.
If requirement get higher according as the gear power increases, players will upgrade gear in stages.


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Upgrading items more times (in smaller steps) is more fun than jumping right to the perfect gear.


No, many players will have different thought.
They want to get the perfect gear as soon as possible.
That's why, they trade.
A player that think upgrading gear in smaller steps really fun will be enjoy SFF now.
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Arhiti wrote:
How many questions have been translated from the Russian version of the forum?
""Ask us questions, but we will not even hear them ... ""


Valid concern if true.

But I do think GGG tries their best. Sadly it is hard to satisfy all your customers of course.
Heart of Purity

The sense of challenge, danger and mystery has been replaced by a feeling of entitlement, security and predictability.
Mirek Le Fou - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9i7i7LHmL0
Lore - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xydfHw6qrB0
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enoecarg wrote:

They want to get the perfect gear as soon as possible.
That's why, they trade.
A player that think upgrading gear in smaller steps really fun will be enjoy SFF now.


First rule of game design: The players don't always know what they want, and what they say they want is not always what will make them have the most fun.

While listening to feedback from the players is important (GGG is exceptionally good at this, anyone who disagrees has been spoiled by GGG or should at least point me to a developer that is better), doing everything that the players say they want will most likely make the fun of the game go away quickly. People don't always like challenges, but almost everyone loves the reward of beating a challenge.

You may think that getting godly gear as soon as possible is great, because right now, that is a massive challenge and when you finally have the gear, you feel rewarded, and that reward is what you seek. The moment the challenge is no longer there, the reward is also gone.
Last edited by KoHElfs on Mar 25, 2017, 1:23:53 AM
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cipher_nemo wrote:

So, no, there is "no plan" for trade at the moment. And if they do secretly have a plan, then they're already misleading all of us by talking about how horrible they think the concept of poe.trade is. It reminds me of a country who sells its weapons to 3rd party arms dealers, then decries their disgust when those arms are being used in illicit activities.

i rather think the preliminary results of their tests in the new chinese realm showed them them the real differences between both economies.

offline
Wow... Chris is not a coffee drinker! As a UU church member that comes very close to blasphemy to not drink coffee. Actually I didn't drink coffee either when I was young so not until I met and fell in love did I start drinking coffee. But for all the caffeinated drinks GGG's lunch room has I didn't see any Jolt Cola (the preferred drink of coders pulling an all nighter).  :)
"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.

The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070

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