[R.I.P.] life Mjolner done right by Rico - Juggernaut version - R.I.P. thx to "balancing" policy

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shrunn57 wrote:

Sorry to be a pest about the attach speed issue, but I just switched to the discharge plus 2 supports mode and dropped arc.

So what is the maximum cyclone attack rate (in game tooltip) without CDR gear I should have?

Or better yet, since PoB calculates the effective cyclone attack rate with all effects active, what is the maximum I should allow that to reach?

Seems as though my improved results with just discharge are due to my low attack rate compared to what is/was needed with arc. Anyway I spent an hour looking at this thread trying to answer my above question but I don't see it.

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Check on page 274 Rico's explanation of the cdr.

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Nephalon wrote:

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RicoKGB wrote:

Yes Im sure. Arc and double attack speed doesnt provide 4 power charges for each Discharge simply because romiras doesnt grant power charges per each skill hit but rather per each skill cast. Therefore with Arc and double cyclone APS you have: 1 power charge from last Discharge, 1 power charge from last Arc and 1 power charge from initial cyclone hit. So 3 in total not 4. With Discharge alone you will have 2 PCs in total.

-previous discharge
-cyclone hit triggering arc
-arc
-cyclone hit triggering discharge

You cant have an initial cyclone hit

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shrunn57 wrote:

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Check on page 274 Rico's explanation of the cdr.

Sorry but I read that stuff and I'm still not confident I can answer my question.

I see Rico tested discharge plus 2 supports with 14% CDR, but I have no CDR.

Game says I have 3.92 cyclone attack rate and PoB says the net attack rate with buffs is ~4.5. In game during battle I max at 4.51 but usually 4.3x.

From game I can get a discharge every .69 seconds, from PoB .62. Not sure why the discrepancy.

Here is how things look from my light understanding:

Cyclone in game attack rate is just over .22 seconds per attack. The third attack is wasted if it hits discharge cooldown. If I go with game number I'm a little too soon, with PoB I can go slightly faster (to about 4.8x attack rate for cyclone).

Do I have this right or can anyone clear things up for me? Thanks if you take the time.

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philophil wrote:

have you tested wave of conviction+discharge? if you scale wave correctly to get the 25% pen its pretty good.

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xPuppyx wrote:

can this build kill uber elder?

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xPuppyx wrote:

and how deal with reflects maps?

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RicoKGB wrote:

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xPuppyx wrote:

can this build kill uber elder?

Yes.

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xPuppyx wrote:

and how deal with reflects maps?

With Chaos Orb.


EDIT: @Phil

After running some numbers I dont think Wave of Conviction is really worth it. Here is why:


(right click open in new tab to enlarge)

You basically need at least 5.5 Cyclone APS for DPS to be equal with "Discharge alone" version. This cost 3 points (Berserking cluster), requires gg jewels and Perseverance belt. More than that you need to balance resistances for Oak use.

And when u change CD for Conc Eff in Discharge, sacrificing some range, it is even less worth it:


(right click open in new tab to enlarge)

You need at least 5.7 Cyclone APS to match single Discharge dmg output while on Conc Eff + EF, while maximum possible of 6 APS will provide minor advantage of 30k DPS in total (not worth all the investment if u ask me):


(right click open in new tab to enlarge)


Now theres one more thing: Im not sure that both spells can trigger 6 times per sec with 6 APS on Cyclone. Because theres switching going on behind the scenes caused by the trigger mechanics itself: Spell 1, Spell 2, Spell 1... It is more like first socketed spell will fire 6 times but secound one 5 times per sec as it is moved in time by 166ms (or 1/6) due to the switching mechanics. So when we account for that final result for maxed versions looks like this:



The only benefit I see is one more endurance charge being utilized per each Discharge for a total of +600 life gained each sec. However I dont think it is worth 3 passive points (maybe even more), belt switch to Perseverance, balancing resistances for Oak use and heavy jewel investment (attack speed).

Correct me if Im wrong.