Going to Console was a bad idea.

ITT: People point out every design decision and technical improvement they do or don't like, and attribute it to XBOX development to either criticize or support GGG's decision.

Seriously, can't we just wait and see how well/badly GGG does on consoles before claiming that going to console "was" a bad idea? If you've been discontent with the last few years of content, okay, but at least realize that the last two years were by far GGG's best in terms of player growth and company growth.

This is a smart business decision on GGG's part, and is more or less what they had to do to further grow the company (without creating another game, which would probably have as much controversy about it as this). They lose some of their more elitist (not elite, elitist) PC players and gain a whole truckload of more casual xbox players- I think that's a win-win.

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Maswasnos wrote:

ITT: People point out every design decision and technical improvement they do or don't like, and attribute it to XBOX development to either criticize or support GGG's decision.

Seriously, can't we just wait and see how well/badly GGG does on consoles before claiming that going to console "was" a bad idea? If you've been discontent with the last few years of content, okay, but at least realize that the last two years were by far GGG's best in terms of player growth and company growth.

This is a smart business decision on GGG's part, and is more or less what they had to do to further grow the company (without creating another game, which would probably have as much controversy about it as this). They lose some of their more elitist (not elite, elitist) PC players and gain a whole truckload of more casual xbox players- I think that's a win-win.

"Smart business decision" is the problem. PoE is player funded. The original players who funded the game were playing a vastly different game than today. The game has moved so far from that original game. While the change was obvious on many levels, those players hoped that GGG was just testing the waters, so to speak, and would revert to the original type of game PoE was.

The console port announcement is a symbolic commitment to abandoning the original PoE. It's GGG coming out and confirming what all those original supporters suspected, but hoped wasn't the case: The original PoE that they liked is gone.

I think most of them understand it's smart business. It still leaves a bad taste for them bc by all rights, the game wouldn't be where it is today, if it weren't for their long-time support. It's a lose-lose for them because no matter how successful the Xbox port is, how many new players it brings in, how much more money GGG makes, and how much more content the PC version gets, the reason they originally liked PoE, and the reason why they poured so much support into the game - is no more.

Believe it or not there are a lot of console players that like difficulty in video games. That seems to be a foreign concept on this forum.

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iamstryker wrote:

Believe it or not there are a lot of console players that like difficulty in video games. That seems to be a foreign concept on this forum.

There is a difference in computer difficulty and console difficulty.

Consoles, or controllers, have a harder time aiming than computers, or mice, do.

However, consoles have an easier time controlling their exact movement so they can "stealth" better.

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Natharias wrote:

Outcome 1: Both games develop along separate paths. While "my" game remains the same, less effort is allocated to working on it (be it development or improvement) because there is another game that requires work.

Outcome 2: The game dumbs down to cater to the "lesser" system because the company wants the same game across systems. "My" game is no longer "my" game, it is now someone else's.

Outcome 3: Console doesn't get Path of Exile. Not likely.

Not that hard to think things through.

I understand where youre coming from mate, dont think Im not getting it or that Im not sympathetic to the ideas. For sure theres potential for this to be the case. Im seeing some things a little differently though, heres some thoughts...


I dont think outcome 2 is gonna happen. PoE on pc has become more casual of its own accord, and people will attribute any continuation of that to the console port from now on because it suits them, but it was inevitable regardless of the port and a lot of it has been healthy for the game. I honestly think its a better game today than its ever been and Im an old school player. I got diablo 1 on launch, Im 35, I like it when this game is brutal, difficult, unforgiving. Some changes over time I rly dont like, but theyre outweighed, imo, by the great changes we have seen.


Outcome 1, I think we have to look at potential revenue from xbox. Sure, up to the point xbox releases all effort thats gone into it is money diverted from being spent on the pc, for sure. But think about what happens when it releases, up to now pc revenue has been able to keep this game running and expanding while also funding a console port. When the console goes live it will have its own revenue stream that will be able to do the same thing, it will fund itself.

Not just fund itself, but make the pc better too. The pc will continue to fund itself, but 80%+ of the work that goes into the pc version will be content that is also usable for the console, the new acts, the leagues, new art, monsters, skills etc. The console funds itself, but it also has that 80%, it can also fund a league every 3 months, a new act every 2 years, constant new skills etc, and most of that stuff is just as useful on the pc version. So that 80% of the work that is universal to the platforms essentially will double dip for both platforms, both platforms will be getting 160% efficiency on that part of the content creation. Its burn prolif meta development. Whatever we think we have lost to date getting this port up and running has very good potential to come back tenfold over the next few years allowing the pc to get a quantity and quality of content we could never have funded by ourselves.

We also need GGG to stick around so we have the servers etc, the stronger and more diverse they are as a company the more secure the investments we have made into poe and our time in game are. Diablo 3 might have been a shitter because blizz are a clueless bunch of lowbrow kiddy pandering shartists, but no matter how low that games ratings and player base has got at points the servers have never shut down because blizz has far reaching tentacles that can support it forever if need be. GGGs long term sustainability is crucial to protecting our interests in poe, the biggest concern is one day they cant afford to keep this going, protecting against that is their biggest responsibility to us as players and donators.

Good things to think about, Snorkle. I liked the double-dipping analogy in particular. :P

Here are a few of my own thoughts, not really connected to yours (so don't read it as a response to yours). I posted them in a GD thread a few days ago, but they got buried quickly, so please forgive me for sharing them here as well.

I'm not bothered about multi-platform at all, intrinsically. I'd love to see PoE expand, and GGG grow.

But some (including Chris himself) are claiming that, because the Xbone version is done by a different development team, its impact on the PC version will be limited. I am baffled that any thoughtful person could believe this statement. Unless Chris plans on cloning himself (and a few other key figures) and spinning off a separate company for Xbone, the attention of relevant developers and those who manage them WILL be divided.

When you have your eyes on too many balls at once, one (or more) of them gets missed. I think the absence of key, long-demanded, long-needed features in the PC version of the game is ample evidence of that.

Unless we really believe that MTX sorting (and not a few other "let's get this shit out of beta already" QoL features) would have been this neglected if they weren't working on temp leagues and other content? And that the only reason they have neglected them was that they couldn't afford to pay for the dev hours required? Pfft, I say.

Chris seems to imply that adding people to the team will prevent balls being dropped. Nuh uh. Anyone who knows anything about management, development, or teams in general will confirm that doubling the size of a team (for example) does not necessarily mean doubling its output, and those cases where it does are extraordinarily rare. You still need key figures with their eyes on the ball.

And a console port is nothing to sneeze at. I wish GGG the best of luck, but I think any claims that it will not distract Chris and others' attention from the problems which remain with the PC version are naive at best. And I think most people who claim to feel "betrayed" (hyperbole, perhaps, but emotions run high when it comes to a hobby you've invested thousands of hours into) by this latest news have their eyes firmly focused upon those remaining problems.

I don't have a problem with console ARPGs, but I have a problem with designing PvE for a simultaneous console and PC market. Why? Because I have a problem, as we all should, with an ACTION (role-playing) game being designed simultaneously for both mouse and joystick play. Do you really think human reaction time, twitch reflexes, UI, controls, etc. are that similar between the two input devices? You can't fine-tune the action feedback loop under both conditions simultaneously.

Although it seems GGG has been down this path a while, one which has caused me to stop playing: they seem intent on making PoE not an ACTION (role-playing) game but an ARPG simulator. Real action, real reflexes? Bosses and that's it. Everything else is to melt before you as you half-heartedly pay attention to the game. Under THOSE circumstances, control scheme doesn't matter nearly as much.