Going to Console was a bad idea.

I think you lot are reading too far into it, assigning design decisions to something console related when thats probably not the case at all. Namelock melee has been in the game since day dot, and people dont play those skills because they are shit, its simply an ineffective, inefficient way to play. Thats why they make melee skills with aoe, because the stuff that people actually use through the years like cleave, reave, groundslam etc are all aoe. They still do namelock stuff, wildstrike you have to namelock, but not many people play it for exactly that reason, where stuff like flurry gets talked about a lot instead because its actually effective and fun, hence a lot of people play it and thats why they make skills like that. I dont see any of that having anything to do with consoles.


first person shooters are typically a joke on a console and a very skilled game on a pc, this isnt an fps game though, its more like a top down shooter. Theres aspects of those games that you have more control with a pc, of course, quite how stuff like lightning warp will work on a console i have no idea, cant imagine it not being clunky. But playing stuff like geometry wars on a console vs playing it with keyboard and mouse gives you much more control, its easier to move in one direction and attack in another. If anything I would say that a console versions controls will be held back by having a pc source, you could potentially move and attack at the same time in different directions with ease on a console, making dodging and kiting enemies far more effective. I think its the console that is more likely dumbed down in terms of skill potential by holding it to pc balance than vice versa. This isnt quake 3 at any rate, its not a highly skill based precision reflex game, its not even geometry wars, its an arpg. If the shaper fight was in a pure console shooter you wouldnt have zana in her bubble protecting you during the pure rain phase, you could legitimately expect players do manually dodge all those things because console controls offer way more control, essentially, they have a higher skill cap than our clunky pc method.

It's true its the players goal to get the rush of clearing as fast as possible. Thing is it comes too fast. About act 2 or 3 normal you get all the candy to blast through everything all the way to end game where only the hard boss don't get one shot. Preferred more stick less carrot. GGG has taken the thrill and stuggle out of the chase for me at least. When I came here the first good build I did was copying foxtactics RF arc build. Make like 21K DPS with RF today I can make 300K arc with no RF and with full pen to zero as an inquistor. Power if off the charts. With all builds really probably 10x DPS from 1.1 when i came. Yes its fun until it's not which why leagues die so fast. Chase is gone. It's the chase that keeps us interested not god mode.

Anyway about melee and name locking. Could be easily attractive if they did way more DPS than the AOE skills balancing time/risk/reward to be equal. But they dont. Again they just give too much carrots and it's all-aoe-all-the time.

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I just bought bought the DRM free version of Grim dawn and all expansions from GOG. Ima take a break. Everything is getting console already in this game, the arcade like aoe power creep which console players love, the directional targeting "melee" skills like blade flurry and new channeling skills since pin point skills are hard on consoles. Design decisions will be console vetted making PoE like the great PC games before it the were put on console worse off and further away from a traditional ARPG. 100% guaranteed.

The thing is, right now they dropped that announcement and nothing really changed. Since the existance of the game AoE skills were better than melee skills. I played the game basically since the Groundslam + Frostwall times, which is not the longest, but I assume many joined later, so the idea that this AoE centric meta only came in now, isn't really there. With Shotgunning in place it was even worse, because you essentially always got coverage and damage in the same place on spells. And later when LA+Static Blows or Spark Totems were meta it was again all about Coverage. The only thing that is true is that the game was a lot slower, but it didn't focus less on AoE. If you simply slow the game down by 25% you get exactly what you had back then. Of course AoEs weren't that dominant back then it was more a projectile than an AoE meta, but it still meant that you covered huge areas with little effort.

Another thing to note is that while many games were terrible in there first PC/Console iteration a lot of them came back. Oblivion was terrible, but the Sheogorath Addon and later Skyrim fixed many issues and Skyrim also proves how easy it is to change some things back to PC standards with mods.

If you do your porting right, you can easily make a different UI for Console and PC and that is the biggest thing. The game mechanics don't need lot of changes and if a modder can easily make a perfectly workable UI for Skyrim I honestly question why Bethesda never put in any effort to made their UIs at least tolerable compared to the quality of the rest of the game.

Thing is PCs are a shrinking market (relative to consoles), so branching out is a wise decision from an economical perspective and right now I can't really see that they made too many sacrifices, because actually a lot of the game content designed after desync was fixed requires a lot of precise movement, which is a lot harder on a console. Maybe I'm just not good with a controller and it is actually a lot easier to do this movement heavy encounters on a console, but I have no idea how I should play my Flameblast Totem Inquisitor on a console, when I read that announcement I picked up a controller and thought about it and my mind basically said "Nope... not gonna work".

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Aim_Deep wrote:

It's true its the players goal to get the rush of clearing as fast as possible. Thing is it comes too fast. About act 2 or 3 normal you get all the candy to blast through everything all the way to end game where only the hard boss don't get one shot. Preferred more stick less carrot. GGG has taken the thrill and stuggle out of the chase for me at least. When I came here the first good build I did was copying foxtactics RF arc build. Make like 21K DPS with RF today I can make 300K arc with no RF and with full pen to zero as an inquistor. Power if off the charts. With all builds really probably 10x DPS from 1.1 when i came. Yes its fun until it's not which why leagues die so fast. Chase is gone. It's the chase that keeps us interested not god mode.

Anyway about melee and name locking. Could be easily attractive if they did way more DPS than the AOE skills balancing time/risk/reward to be equal. But they dont. Again they just give too much carrots and it's all-aoe-all-the time.

ya I hear you mate, power creep has gone way too far, Ive seen you post similar things before and Im always saying it myself too.

I agree too namelock skills could simply do WAYYYY more damage, the problem being as you say that if you are already 1 shotting the world with your screen wide aoe skills then it doesnt matter. For a namelock skill doing double damage of an aoe to matter then at a minimum the overall balance has to be that the namelock skill instantly kills things and the aoe takes twice as long, if the kill speed is the same because were overkilling everything by absurd amounts with both skills then the aoe always wins, namelock could do 100x more damage and still no one would use them for mapping.

I wish the chase was back, I really do. Fox still makes build guides but he doesnt rly push them or hype them they way the empowered arcer was pushed. Hes going over 150k, 95% crit chance inquisitor arc atm in a 4 link lol, with a 6 link 600k dps single target tendrils, just melting the fk out of everything. But whats the point pushing that as a build in a game where everyones 1 shotting the world with everything? It can kill every boss in the game easymode, nuke down maps in seconds, who cares? No one cares any more. I remember the rf arc, even the cloak of defiance + geofris version that build into the rf, 18k dps arc, holy fuck! This dudes got an 18k dps spell, and its arc! Wtf is this build? Now you see quotes like "only 100k dps" as some kind of apology in build guides, cannot kill red tier map bosses in 3 seconds, sry guys, I guess this is a low dps tanky build.

Its way out of control imo.

namelock skills suck because the mob density is just too high (the targeting should be made even easier but it is 'bearable' right now)

we had AOE skills even in pre-beta days, before chaos resist and all that stuff. but it was fine. why?

because instead of 25 mobs you saw maybe 5. GGG acknowledges it too. the mob density is VERY VERY important balancing factor. anyone who played PTR for D3 knows that. blizzard understands value of mob density perfectly, ggg may understand it too yet they are scared to tweak it

how strong is the urge to please low-effort low-skill crowd we can see with how overtuned the mob density is.

This was basically the missing piece to the puzzle, wasn't it?

The TV-meta...

The piss poor balance...

Shitting items all over the place...

Poor optimization for many PC users...

Overall lack of polish...

The many, many loose ends...

+90 people on Wilson's payroll...

It all ties in. Thank god, I quit this game already. This console release merely confirms that I was right in flipping this game the bird.

A "small team" worked on the console port? My ass! I am certain it's been over 30 people involved in the console port, and I feel like I'm lowballing it.

What's wrong GGG? Weren't the PC users good enough for you? Has the lake that is "PC land" been fished dry already? Need to move on like a swarm of locusts? Sure looks like it.

Have fun with releasing this unpolished game that you're dragging through the dirt by casualizing it on consoles. Can't wait for the first impressions of people who actually know a thing or two about video games.

Woe is the day the casual console guys pull back the curtain and set foot on these forums.

Am I pissed off? Perhaps, but I am mostly amazed by how GGG manages to fuck with customers. The absolute best part is that they have been hiding it for over a year. Doesn't take a bloodhound to smell the guilty concience.

My advice: Get off this sinking ship and watch from the sidelines, at least that might be good for a laugh...

Honestly once they release more people might notice that the console version might actually be an entirely different game. It uses assets, animations and stuff, which saves time, but I cannot imagine playing some builds, exspecially totems or traps. Because you either have to point at a place with a controller which is terrible or always place or throw them a set distance. So such content already has to be redone or removed entirely.

The console version also allows less skills and less flasks, simply due to a lack of buttons. So I highly doubt that they made many changes to the PC version to prepare for the console version, because of how different they have to be.

Something people should also notice, if the recent game changes (and recent would mean for at least a year) would have anything to do with the xbox version we would have moved away from trading. Consoles are a lot less social than PCs, which partially has to do with the inability to type on a keyboard. So trading is a lot harder. And there focus is still not at all on SSF, because while uniques are more common, for SSF people actually dropping good rares to fill the slots in between would me more important than those uniques.

For a business decision i don't think it was a bad idea at all. It will allow non PC games access to a great game.

What i do think is a bad idea is not having Cross Platform support of the bat. If you want to keep the Realms separate for general play and economy fine. But at least allow listed friends to play together from PC-Xbox, Xbox to PC.

I am not a fan of the Realm and Platform Segregation. I think regardless of the platform you play on, you should have the chance to party up and play together.

I have a friend who isn't tech savvy who is going to down load the game on Xbox1 when it comes out. I am upset that i cant play the game with him -_-.

All the technical improvements since 2014 have been due to the console port....so if you think it's a bad idea then thats your problem not GGG's

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lagwin1980 wrote:

All the technical improvements since 2014 have been due to the console port....so if you think it's a bad idea then thats your problem not GGG's

Then you've completely missed the point.

I'd agree that something like the specific use stash tabs were introduced due to influence of the console version of the game.

But a specific use stash tab, while nice, is not one of the things players have been screaming for since closed beta. There are still countless suggestions, ideas, and improvements that were discussed-a few of them GGG even mentioned having been placed on a list.

Where are those fucking promises? Oh, not here? No money for you GGG. Fuck you, since you said fuck me.

It is GGG's problem. Not mine.