bought some tabs, and a Currency Tab - feedback

There is a world of difference between:

Try it for free. If you don't like it, or only do a playthrough or two, then you're out nothing. If you play it for >30-40 hours (easily the match of any AAA game, excepting some RPGs), you will probably want to buy some tabs, and suffer somewhat if you don't (the amount of suffering dependent on how much/long/competitively you play).

OR

Pay for the game upfront, and if you don't sink 20-100 hours into it (depending on the person's valuation of what gameplay should cost), then you've wasted a bunch of money.

It's not even a matter of GGG maximizing their profits or tricking people into paying, it's better for prospective players the way that it is, since it allows them to make an informed choice of whether or not to pay for/to the game -- as well as encouraging those who would balk at a sticker price to even try it in the first place.

Sure, they could do some sort of timed or content-based lock (free till you run your first map or beat A3M or something), but that quickly becomes overly complicated and subject to further argument based upon the exact pricing scheme.

Not to mention that, while *I'm* happy with it, and it has improved by leaps and bounds, it most emphatically isn't a AAA game, and people will complain about the quality/development of something that they bought unknowing. As it is, by the time that you actually pay them money, you're well aware of what you're paying for, so can't claim buyer's remorse.

And don't forget, IF they did something along the lines of giving people more/premium tabs for free, it would necessitate either cutting development effort (read: jobs), or hiking up the prices on MTX, forcing the game's actual monetary supporters to pick up the slack while giving a large group of people a free ride. I don't see how it's fair to force the whales to shoulder the entire burden of bankrolling the game -- they already carry a large proportion of it, as it is.

I want to mention - yet again - that tabs are not the only way to "pay for the game if you like it".
but people see them as such, because of what they are. because they do what no MTX does.
heck GGG can remove all of the MTX shop and sell only tabs, right?

a pay to play model is in my opinion a possible solution to the current situation, and forget about what this game started as. what GGG started as. those GGG would never do what present-day GGG are doing: slowly but surely making sure you buy that one MTX you need, over the dozen MTX you want (or none at all, which is also a choice I guess, in a real F2P).
that's Tablet-game tactics guys. calling it unethical is an understatement.

as for quality - this game is better than many AAA games I've played. yes with all of its bugs and server stability issues, still better.
and that's compared to good AAA games I enjoyed, not the money-grab crap that comes out every so often.
don't see a problem paying to play it, even for new players.
especially if the entry price is on "Indie" level rather than AAA.

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johnKeys wrote:

GGG can remove all of the MTX shop and sell only tabs, right?

well, they give mtx away for free, actually?

people can stuff themselves up with portals, pets and complete armor sets while just playing the game with some serious dedication.

if that's not convincing you that they deliberately not want to sell alot of decorational mtx, just imagine a 12 tab mtx inventory where you have to search for a effect you just removed from a skill gem.
i know they're about to improve that on q1 2017 but why not earlier? yep, selling alot of stuff never was a priority, game improvements and new content always came first. it honours them to a certain degree but where does that leave supporters?

for reference, the part from jonathans interview:

they dont need a solution because there isnt a problem outside of your head. If they change the model then a lot more people will think thats a problem, which might very well be a real problem.

Cant you just get over it and stop making up problems where there doesnt have to be any?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

they dont need a solution because there isnt a problem outside of your head. If they change the model then a lot more people will think thats a problem, which might very well be a real problem.

Cant you just get over it and stop making up problems where there doesnt have to be any?

keeping your eyes shut and muttering "all is fine", is a great strategy Snorkle.
helps sleep better at night for sure.
the hard part is opening them - and seeing what this "MTX" called stash tabs, has become over time.

The game has been very dynamic. constantly changing since release.
that's a good thing. not trivial at all by today's "fire and forget" gaming dev standards.
but these changes also call for a re-evaluation of what "ethical MTX" means now, and can GGG do it better?

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johnKeys wrote:

keeping your eyes shut and muttering "all is fine", is a great strategy Snorkle.

But making a problem where there isnt one is not fine.

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vio wrote:

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johnKeys wrote:

GGG can remove all of the MTX shop and sell only tabs, right?

well, they give mtx away for free, actually?

people can stuff themselves up with portals, pets and complete armor sets while just playing the game with some serious dedication.

if that's not convincing you that they deliberately not want to sell alot of decorational mtx, just imagine a 12 tab mtx inventory where you have to search for a effect you just removed from a skill gem.
i know they're about to improve that on q1 2017 but why not earlier? yep, selling alot of stuff never was a priority, game improvements and new content always came first. it honours them to a certain degree but where does that leave supporters?

for reference, the part from jonathans interview:

jonathan

I did originally do the backend for microtransactions, and I will say I am planning on completely replacing the way that microtransactions stash works.

That is a project that I have. It's not going to be soon, I'm going to warn you there. It's probably going to be next year. I'm hoping quarter one. But once again, this isn't even started, I can't make any promises about timeline.

I understand, the microtransaction stash is shitty [Laugh]. It's because we never really thought -- Once again, it's a scaling thing. We never really realized the amount of microtransactions people would get and just the way things would evolve and so on. The microtransaction stash was completely fine when all you have is one tab, right. It's not a problem in that situation.

Modern games, when you buy things like mystery boxes and stuff like that, they all have way more stuff going on with the shop. You know, "Whee!" and then the chest open up, and you do animations and stuff.

We really need to get with the times and get all that kind of stuff going, just the experience of visiting a shop. It's kind of ridiculous that the things that we make our money from are the things that we spend the least time working on it.

that's a good point.
and Stash Tabs have no such problem because they "store themselves".
still, that does not make them any more ethical as an MTX, because they are not.

the team will make the much-needed overhaul to the MTX tab, which would be great for the old supporters. I imagine they currently have the same issue with it... as I had with the normal ones :P

GGG you must be joking with the new tabs...
for fuck's sake

Ahhhhh throwing the old P2W term about.

If you want extra tabs buy them, if you don't/can't then mule.

If it adds towards the companies revenue towards development and staff's wages then do you really think they'll compromise that because people throw the P2W argument about on forums?

I'm sorry but get real, there's worse cash shops out there in the gaming world.
Just remember and be thankful they're not like that.

Just assume that f2p game is a demo version. You play it, maybe even for 40h and you have enought.
But if you liked it, buy the game. There is no constitucional law to provide free games.
There would be a reason to complain if upgrading your game would cost more than 50$ (price of regular game).

Minor complain: There is no Account Upgrade Bundle with everything (all currency, special, a bunch of premium tabs and some character slots on top).