Atlas of Worlds and Merge question.

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So many people would not have any will to ever play Leagues ever again if it didn't. Knowing all of their time and currency invested is wasted.

Technically, if your atlas was fully filled out it wouldn't be wasted only the first time they do the transfer. Same thing with masters, levelling them is a friggin chore that we've been managing to get ourselves into doing anew every time even though it's a wasted effort in the long term. I'm afraid atlas might push us over the point where we just go 'well, this is too much work to do all over again'.

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raics wrote:

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So many people would not have any will to ever play Leagues ever again if it didn't. Knowing all of their time and currency invested is wasted.

Technically, if your atlas was fully filled out it wouldn't be wasted only the first time they do the transfer. Same thing with masters, levelling them is a friggin chore that we've been managing to get ourselves into doing anew every time even though it's a wasted effort in the long term. I'm afraid atlas might push us over the point where we just go 'well, this is too much work to do all over again'.

I'm not saying leagues should start with your STD Atlas, the point of Leagues is everyone starts from scratch. That's fine, it's balance to in it's prime. But standard is different. And the point of Leagues ending and merging into Standard after their cycle, is to keep all of your progress. Now I know Masters are lost, but, Atlas of Worlds isn't a questing system.

Yeah, I know it would make sense from game design standpoint, would be fair and respectful to players and all that. However, they want to keep the cyclic model going strong because it gives them the best returns, so from the business standpoint it would be a bad move. Would they dare to risk it or not? I expect not, but we'll see.

I messaged Bex and she routed my question to support, (So nice of her) Their response though is sadly not enlightening,

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Hi there,

Thank you for the message. Unfortunately this is not information we are able to provide, however it may be announced at some point in the future on the forums.

Thank you again and if you need anything else please feel free to let us know.

Best regards,
Rob

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raics wrote:

Yeah, I know it would make sense from game design standpoint, would be fair and respectful to players and all that. However, they want to keep the cyclic model going strong because it gives them the best returns, so from the business standpoint it would be a bad move. Would they dare to risk it or not? I expect not, but we'll see.

It's a hard line of, what matters more I guess, the game's core mechanics as illustrated by their design method, or the happiness of the players. I think polling the players would net a good result; however, unless there is definitely a clear winner, almost a landslide, I think it's a hard question to answer.

It would be a relatively simple operation to perform an OR on your Atlas completion.

For those of you who don't know much about Computer Science I'll explain.

I'm guessing that your Atlas is an array of some kind, and each element has several variables that are changeable, including completion (true/false), shaped(true/false), and a couple for sextants (which one, and uses remaining).

An OR operation makes the result true if either of the arguments are true. For example, lets say you had completed the t13 Waterways map in STD and not in the temp league, and the t14 Volcano map in the temp league but not in STD. (SC league)

During the merge, it would look at STD:Waterways:True OR ESC:Waterways:False = True so STD:Waterways:True would remain. In the other case, STD:Volcano:False OR ESC:Volcano:True = True so you would get completion of Volcano in STD.

This operation merges completion.

As for handling Sextants, I would think that if a map in the temp league and its match in the parent league both have sextants, it would keep the one with more uses remaining. Otherwise the one applied more recently.

As for shaped maps/shapers orbs, I would think that the shaped maps from the higher completion atlas would be maintained.

Otherwise it might OR shaping as well (ie get all maps you have shaped), but I'm not sure this is possible to do otherwise (I'm not sure how the Cartographer's Seal interacts with maps that drop a Shaper's Orb, or ones that are shaped. Do you get the Orb again? Do you get the Orb back if you respec a Shaped Map?)

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I messaged Bex and she routed my question to support, (So nice of her) Their response though is sadly not enlightening,

"

Hi there,

Thank you for the message. Unfortunately this is not information we are able to provide, however it may be announced at some point in the future on the forums.

Thank you again and if you need anything else please feel free to let us know.

Best regards,
Rob

This is my main problems with GGG's design. They release stuff without testing, without any real idea of it will work or not. Ok fine I can live with that. But they never seem to follow up on stuff. This will eventually have to be taken care of, they will eventually have to decide what happens to atlas when leagues merge. We are less than a month from that happening and from all appearances they haven't decided. They certainly haven't communicated that decision to the players.

This should have been done when atlas was pushed live. If they forgot or didn't think about this mechanic, well ok cool stuff happens, but it shouldn't take 2 months to make a decision and inform the community.

Just like sextants, almost trash on release, now very useful and fun. Spend more time fine tuning what we have less time coming up with new stuff.

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zSavage wrote:

It would be a relatively simple operation to perform an OR on your Atlas completion.

Spoiler

For those of you who don't know much about Computer Science I'll explain.

I'm guessing that your Atlas is an array of some kind, and each element has several variables that are changeable, including completion (true/false), shaped(true/false), and a couple for sextants (which one, and uses remaining).

An OR operation makes the result true if either of the arguments are true. For example, lets say you had completed the t13 Waterways map in STD and not in the temp league, and the t14 Volcano map in the temp league but not in STD. (SC league)

During the merge, it would look at STD:Waterways:True OR ESC:Waterways:False = True so STD:Waterways:True would remain. In the other case, STD:Volcano:False OR ESC:Volcano:True = True so you would get completion of Volcano in STD.

This operation merges completion.

As for handling Sextants, I would think that if a map in the temp league and its match in the parent league both have sextants, it would keep the one with more uses remaining. Otherwise the one applied more recently.

As for shaped maps/shapers orbs, I would think that the shaped maps from the higher completion atlas would be maintained.

Otherwise it might OR shaping as well (ie get all maps you have shaped), but I'm not sure this is possible to do otherwise (I'm not sure how the Cartographer's Seal interacts with maps that drop a Shaper's Orb, or ones that are shaped. Do you get the Orb again? Do you get the Orb back if you respec a Shaped Map?)

I'm still waking up so at first glance was like, whoa what? But after reading it a second time it makes sense. I'm curious if there's other ways of going about it, but your's as of right now makes the most amount of sense. Someone needs to get this to GGG XD (.)

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OldmanBlackdragon wrote:

This is my main problems with GGG's design.

Spoiler

They release stuff without testing, without any real idea of it will work or not. Ok fine I can live with that. But they never seem to follow up on stuff. This will eventually have to be taken care of, they will eventually have to decide what happens to atlas when leagues merge. We are less than a month from that happening and from all appearances they haven't decided. They certainly haven't communicated that decision to the players.

This should have been done when atlas was pushed live. If they forgot or didn't think about this mechanic, well ok cool stuff happens, but it shouldn't take 2 months to make a decision and inform the community.

Just like sextants, almost trash on release, now very useful and fun. Spend more time fine tuning what we have less time coming up with new stuff.

I know they're paid via micro-transactions, since this isn't pay-per x game, so I know they don't have the largest of teams, and the teams aren't getting paid the largest amount of income. That aside, you're right. This AoW Merge issue should have been resolved BEFORE they even released the League. They should have known what their plan was before even releasing the final product. And some can argue, well the merger isn't relative to the League it's self. But it is, handling it's launch, it's playability and balancing during, as well as it's closure, is all stuff they should have fully worked out. So it's a tad unsettling to see them skimp out on such an important detail. I don't know what bothers me more, the possibility of not having Atlas carry over, or GGG's lack of explanation on how this League is going to end, with their new Expansion pack.

Now don't get me wrong, their way of tackling this stuff does unnerve and upset me a lot. But it doesn't dissuade me from being a dedicated player in the future. I love the game, all of it's ins-and-outs. I just don't like how in-the-dark they keep us. For surprised stuff like new gems, items, etc... That's fine, that's cool. But this isn't something that should be sprung up on us last second.

Definitely not a Bump.