Add a 5 second logout timer...

"

Hunwulf wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Never hit level 90 in HC (I play SSF, and quite frankly I'm not that good), but I have spent hundreds or thousands of hours in HC, and I support this idea. And my connection to the servers is not great (though my local internet is rock-solid).

Adding a logout timer will not help the game in any way per se, but it will (finally) empower GGG not to have to balance the game around Alt+F4, and that is a very, very good thing.

As an aside, as someone who doesn't abuse Alt+F4, I am annoyed that I and others have to suffer bad balance decisions (e.g., one-shots from monsters) in order to accomodate those who do abuse it. <-- It's cheating, people. Just admit it. If you don't want to lose your ability to cheat using Alt+F4, then quite frankly you have no business playing HC in the first place. Switch to SC, and let the non-cheaters enjoy a properly balanced HC game.

"

Q:What are your thoughts on the use of alt-f4 in the game to escape death?


"
A:It's currently an accepted playstyle that allows us to design bosses to be more interesting. If you're locked in to *absolutely having to kill it with no hope of escape* then it has to be an easier fight.

Well, everyone can have his own rules. Some people don't trade, play 100%ssf, don't play in partys and so on. You can say, 'hey, I play chess only with pawns, to play it other way is pure cheating!' - thats fine if it's work for you, but latest if you lost 100 games in a row, you have to admit the game is designed not that way. To claim something what works as designed as cheating and calling players who do so is just ridicioulus.

And I'm fine with ultra HC rules, LogOut timer, delete char after rip, all of that - but not in a online enviroment what can have and have technical issues all the time.

Point taken. GGG currently considers it "an accepted playstyle," so accusing you of cheating was uncalled for.

But I still think it's cheating. ;)

Here's the thing: I don't think GGG's priority here is to empower chicken scripts. They are just tolerating them in order to be able to make more challenging content. In the current state that includes (necessarily) one-shot mechanics.

Are you a fan of (non-telegraphed) one-shot mechanics? Do you know anyone who is?

Without Alt+F4, GGG can finally create what I often call a "meaningful challenge" (as opposed to one-shot mechanics, which fit into the category of what I often call a "meaningless, and therefore unfun, challenge"). In this case, that would be making content difficult without relying on one-shot mechanics.

Also, as sidtherat pointed out, technical issues will usually toast you in either case. Chicken scripts are most useful (and most used) during periods of network stability.

I agree, though I think it's quite unrealistic. Unfortunately GGG for whatever reason decided to design around Alt-F4 so we're pretty much stuck with it unless the whole game gets a complete overhaul.

"

Jankalor wrote:

"

Hunwulf wrote:

Well, maybe guys like you will be enlightened if they start a league HC and looses several chars only reasoned by tech. issues/bugs and so on. I would at least mean, that I never will start a league again in HC and waiting 1-2 weeks until the most shit is fixed. DUnno if that would be halthy to the HC com at all.

While I have rarely had any tech. related issues so far, which could have caused my characters to die, I do agree that a logout timer could be fatal for the reasons you described.

I am also fully aware that a logout timer is probably never going to get introduced, yet I wouldn't mind some kind of "ban" for logout scripts or other intentional ways that abuse this current system.

Using them is just pathetic and has nothing to do with being "hardcore" in any way.

Well, I will maybe ever defend Alt+F4 for the named reasons, but if you asked me, all scripts should be banned. Scripts should have no place in games at all.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Hunwulf wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Never hit level 90 in HC (I play SSF, and quite frankly I'm not that good), but I have spent hundreds or thousands of hours in HC, and I support this idea. And my connection to the servers is not great (though my local internet is rock-solid).

Adding a logout timer will not help the game in any way per se, but it will (finally) empower GGG not to have to balance the game around Alt+F4, and that is a very, very good thing.

As an aside, as someone who doesn't abuse Alt+F4, I am annoyed that I and others have to suffer bad balance decisions (e.g., one-shots from monsters) in order to accomodate those who do abuse it. <-- It's cheating, people. Just admit it. If you don't want to lose your ability to cheat using Alt+F4, then quite frankly you have no business playing HC in the first place. Switch to SC, and let the non-cheaters enjoy a properly balanced HC game.

"

Q:What are your thoughts on the use of alt-f4 in the game to escape death?


"
A:It's currently an accepted playstyle that allows us to design bosses to be more interesting. If you're locked in to *absolutely having to kill it with no hope of escape* then it has to be an easier fight.

Well, everyone can have his own rules. Some people don't trade, play 100%ssf, don't play in partys and so on. You can say, 'hey, I play chess only with pawns, to play it other way is pure cheating!' - thats fine if it's work for you, but latest if you lost 100 games in a row, you have to admit the game is designed not that way. To claim something what works as designed as cheating and calling players who do so is just ridicioulus.

And I'm fine with ultra HC rules, LogOut timer, delete char after rip, all of that - but not in a online enviroment what can have and have technical issues all the time.

Point taken. GGG currently considers it "an accepted playstyle," so accusing you of cheating was uncalled for.

But I still think it's cheating. ;)

Here's the thing: I don't think GGG's priority here is to empower chicken scripts. They are just tolerating them in order to be able to make more challenging content. In the current state that includes (necessarily) one-shot mechanics.

Are you a fan of (non-telegraphed) one-shot mechanics? Do you know anyone who is?

Without Alt+F4, GGG can finally create what I often call a "meaningful challenge" (as opposed to one-shot mechanics, which fit into the category of what I often call a "meaningless, and therefore unfun, challenge"). In this case, that would be making content difficult without relying on one-shot mechanics.

Also, as sidtherat pointed out, technical issues will usually toast you in either case. Chicken scripts are most useful (and most used) during periods of network stability.

You just said it: they tolerate it to make the content more difficulty. It's a purely design decision, you can be happy with that or not. And I'm getting your point, to claim to say alter the challenges and get rid of scripts is a valid point. But I say, even non telegraphed one-shot mechanics can mostly be avoided if you're prepared and slower your game speed. But that isn't still the meta. I really rare ripping to content at all, but for the cost of a casual clear speed and don't do ridiculous map mods if I'm not prepared for it. And tech issues don't toast you in every case, thats simply not true (as I explained in my former posts). They can be (and are) a lot more issues in the game then simple DC issues. Especially 2.4 have shown that for many players (even it's still a minority).

I don't mean that technical issues are necessarily deadly.

I mean that if a technical issue is one that can kill you sans your chicken script, that same chicken script will be unlikely to save you. That's what sidtherat was more or less saying as well, if I am not mistaken.

And for that reason alone, the primary use of such scripts is to "cheat" death, not to compensate for poor server distribution and/or bad local internet connections.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

I don't mean that technical issues are necessarily deadly.

I mean that if a technical issue is one that can kill you sans your chicken script, that same chicken script will be unlikely to save you. That's what sidtherat was more or less saying as well, if I am not mistaken.

And for that reason alone, the primary use of such scripts is to "cheat" death, not to compensate for poor server distribution and/or bad local internet connections.

Well, I'm argue most in direction of Alt+F4, burn all the scripts if you want to, I'm never used that, don't care. Again and again: they are way more then connection issues (that was the point of sidtherat). There are more or less requent freezes, FPS drops, game exceptions. In that cases, ALt+F4 is the way to go, like it or not, and that's ok.

I still don't get why that bother so many non-main HC players. I really don't. I'm not using any kind of scripts. Scripts/macros isn't my way to play a game, but I'm totally indifferent for ppl who use this. Why, for god sake, it's so important for some ppl, mostly that ones, that not really bound to HC? I'll ever ask me that question.

"

Hunwulf wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

I don't mean that technical issues are necessarily deadly.

I mean that if a technical issue is one that can kill you sans your chicken script, that same chicken script will be unlikely to save you. That's what sidtherat was more or less saying as well, if I am not mistaken.

And for that reason alone, the primary use of such scripts is to "cheat" death, not to compensate for poor server distribution and/or bad local internet connections.

Well, I'm argue most in direction of Alt+F4, burn all the scripts if you want to, I'm never used that, don't care. Again and again: they are way more then connection issues (that was the point of sidtherat). There are more or less requent freezes, FPS drops, game exceptions. In that cases, ALt+F4 is the way to go, like it or not, and that's ok.

I still don't get why that bother so many non-main HC players. I really don't. I'm not using any kind of scripts. Scripts/macros isn't my way to play a game, but I'm totally indifferent for ppl who use this. Why, for god sake, it's so important for some ppl, mostly that ones, that not really bound to HC? I'll ever ask me that question.

Well I play only HC and I'm against balancing around Alt-F4 because ...duh .. it affects balance. Which is exactly what happens when you don't have a logout delay. GGG explicitly stated that they do keep Alt-F4 in mind when balancing things.

If you happen to have a DC and die to it, well ... tough shit. If I have a cat, should GGG also make sure it doesn't jump onto my keyboard during hard fights?

I would support a logout timer while in areas but if your in town or hideout, instant. I don't think the idea of bringing you to 1 hp is worth it though.

Personally when games have a logout function or exit game function... it means just that. Your done playing the game for now. It's not a mechanical skill at all. People that abuse this basically admit that they died but want to keep playing their character.. which kind of defeats the purpose of hardcore to begin with.

so whats the difference between pressing esc and exit to login screen and open inventory, portal scroll, click on portal? One move and click. The difference between manual logout and logout macro? One move and click. Is it cheating to escape by portal too or is that finally slow enough for your ideal game balance? Or is it only cheating if your also a professional CS player who can aim their cursor quickly enough that it feels instant?

Oh and remove instant life flask too cuz those are basically like cheating death for a few seconds when you press them too because you aren't dying nearly instantly, you are dying over a period of time for sure, like the slow game you want to balance around.

Let's also cap movement speed at say 150%, pure a 30 second cooldown on lightning warp, cap attack speeds at 3.0 attacks per second, so whirling blade can't cheat your way out of death. Never ever run haste mods in maps lest you encounter a fight you can't win. Also we need to remove all ghosts because those things because if you can't beat a multi-ghosted haste rare you encountered by pure bad luck, you DESERVE to die, don't even think about disengaging from that fight, you filthy cheater, whether it's by running away, portal, or the heinous action of manual log warranting the sentence of deleting your character before removing your gear, or lastly the the punishable by death-via-banging-your-head-repeatedly-into-your-screen-and-then-drinking-the-liquid-crystals-that-remain, logout macro.

Lastly, remove all monsters. I mean otherwise it is possible that more than 1 monster could be together. How can you possibly balance the game if a MULTIPLE of damage hits you at the same time? I mean like imagine your not tanky enough to eat a colossal bonestalkers or vaal fallen hit! Well game too one-shotty right? Cut that damage in half! But then there could be like THREE together. WOW TRIPLE THE DAMAGE wow REMOVE this absurdity THIS INSTANT I am ENTITLED to not be 'one'shot by three mobs in a literal instant. Instead all damage needs to be applied as a slow damage over time to prevent this unfairness.
In fact we should scrap path of exile right now and rework a new engine for a new game: Path of Exile 2: The spiritual successor Diablo III release version. 15 second log-out timer to teach the cheating scum of the internet that it is not ok to play a game with high variety in monsters, builds, movement ability, and methods to disengage a fight in less than a half second. Off-line clients only, in case you ever lag and feel the urge to log out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNaa3YE0N9k#t=1m46s
Ban this kid too, look at that cowardly action. The cheater should be resting in standard, like the noobshit they are.

BTW A chicken script is something completely different. Those are essentially bots (not allowed) that read your life meter and perform something like flask or logout at some specified event say drop to 30%. Not only do they not work reliably due to nature of it being an online game but the nature of content in this game which you don't want. So is it shit like instant log-out present since diablo II fucking over your ideal slow pace die after recognizing you can't beat or even run away from the content you are faced with within 5 seconds, or is the nature of the game conveniently fucking automation.

IT'S CHEATING AND I WON'T STAND FOR IT

"

biyte wrote:

so whats the difference between pressing esc and exit to login screen and open inventory, portal scroll, click on portal? One move and click. The difference between manual logout and logout macro? One move and click. Is it cheating to escape by portal too or is that finally slow enough for your ideal game balance? Or is it only cheating if your also a professional CS player who can aim their cursor quickly enough that it feels instant?

If the two are as equivalent as you say, then why would you object to a logout timer? Portal scrolls shall remain in the game.

You can't have it both ways. Either you admit that they aren't equivalent, or you render your argument against logout timers moot by saying they are equivalent.