Atlas mechanics / map drops: Is GGG lying to us? Deliberately not telling the truth?
" Have not played D2 in quite a while, and never online. However, Diablo2 was released more than 16 years ago, I would think that we should have made some progress since then, not only in graphics quality, but also in game design. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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" An an old player which spent lot of time playing d2 and still does, the RNG gated end game content that poe has is light years ahead respect collecting the required 9 keys to access Pandemonium. 3 different bosses drop those keys and it requires on average 10 runs per boss, the rules are clear and everyone knows it. Here there are no clear rules, no clear way to access consistently tier14-16 maps. It is very irritating to read everytime that I log into the game "find and defeat the sharper´s four guardians". The reason is because it does not matter how skilled or well geared your character is, it does not matter how well you roll the maps as you will spend 90% of the time in tier11-13 maps. There are two options: doing low tiers endlessly for currency/RNG bless or trading (shortcut for rich people, which get richer with guaranteed drops), so nice, well designed end game content. Before atlas I never had the need to complain on the forums, now I really feel it is worth posting so things can change. All quests should be doable self-found if character is strong enough. | |
" Yeah, well, the official stance on the subject is that self-found playing in any shape or form is not supported, this is an online game with live economy so participating in it can be on the list of things required to do all content. That's what we signed for. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► | |
" It isn't a rule. "on average 10 runs" still means it could take you 30. I could as well claim it takes on average 10 T13 maps to get up to one T16. " So one option is grinding (possibly endlessly) and the second option is trading for it and then being back at step 1 (choosing whether to grind more or buy it). One could argue that the whole game is built upon these two. Also, more choices should be good, no? " why? Also, one could claim they are - you just need to grind a lot more for it. " You asked which other game one could name and I named one (which PoE is probably greatly influenced by). Also, a lot of progress has been made - just that the basics stay same. Last edited by almostdead on Oct 8, 2016, 3:14:08 PM
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" Well, there is a "minor" difference here, in d2 those 10 runs on average are with regular bosses in hell difficulty, which means everyone has "direct" access (if character can do it). Here, players have no direct access to tier13 maps, on top of that, players have to spend currency on them because makes no so much sense to run them without mods, right? Therefore, the lvl of RNG gated content in poe is by far ahead of d2, which in my modest opinion, can affect player retention. | |
" thats true but now in AOW i see 3 strikes in drops no maps in a row low maps in a row and high maps in a row around 4 - 6 so doing a zana and get 5- 6 maps some on the same lvl with the mission really make me sad.... |
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" 2. It hardly is only T8. It sounds like T10 more. And it is, somewhat, what it was pre-Atlas. Somewhat. If anything, I'd say that your pre-Atlas calculation is less accurate. 3. Noootttreeaaalllyyyy... Again, I think your pre-Atlas calculation is somewhat not accurate. If you shift it a little bit, you'll get around ~1-1,5 tier of a average difference, jumping from ~T11 to around ~T13. And that would absolutely match what I'm experiencing with map system. 4. I'm at 102% atm. 5. My experience is consistent with my theory. :V
My pre-Atlas map pool, in my Remove only stash tab
My current map pool
I know this is nowhere near to call it average, but I can tell this is how it looks like for the most part, in my case. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. https://joeduncan123.imgur.com https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com Last edited by Perq on Oct 10, 2016, 2:24:16 AM
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"majority of games of today are in fact worse than those of 16 years ago in nearly everything but graphics quality and accessibility/polish/ui and ESPECIALLY in gameplay and level design. so that's an iffy assumption about progress. hell, AAA PC video game industry has already plateaued for the most part. compare last 6-8 years of AAA titles to, say, 6-8 years of AAA titles from like 95 to 2001-2003. progress in milking money and graphics arms race ? maybe. progress in design ? not a chance, shit is dumbed down and interesting rough corners are sanded away with polish. its the gentrification of games, pretty much. | |
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I've been comparing pools from previous leagues too. In Essence the pool is better, not by that much, but I haven't bought any maps in Essence, while in Prophecy I bought several T14 & T15.
Prophecy RO tab as I've left it, haven't taken out any maps
Spoiler
Essence (99% Atlas). Note that I've stopped playing ~10 days ago and played ~30% less time than in Prophecy. And I've played more "top-down", burning my highest maps, while in Prophecy I was going more "bottom-up".
Spoiler
It's hard to pull any hard numbers out of this, but the improvement is there, if you consider the circumstances (not buying any maps, less playtime). I'd say the improvement is what you'd expect from that ~1.0 tier upgrade, but because of diminishing returns, it varies by tier - a bigger step in mid maps and smaller in red ones. My map pool in Std (110% Atlas) is even better, but I'm not sure it's fair to compare Std. I have a lot more orbs / sac.frag to waste there and had some T13 1.0 legacy maps lying around too.
Spoiler
+ 25+ T12 & 30+ T11.... When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness | |
" Look, I cannot change the pre-Atlas simulation without changing the post-Atlas one. That is the whole point. I use the same parameters before and after, the only thing I change is the Atlas bonus. That is exactly what GGG claims to have done - implement the Atlas bonus without nerfing the map drops. Of course I can make simulations that match nicely both pre- and post-Atlas experience, but for that I have to nerf the map drops in the post-Atlas scenario. So if my pre-Atlas calculation is inaccurate, but the post-Atlas calculation seems accurate, what does that tell you? Besides that, no, you can just sustain T8 in the pre-Atlas simulation I made. It is the lowest map played consistently, meaning that in the simulation, when playing higher than T8 maps, you eventually run out. " Again, it is not a 1 tier upgrade. It is an about 1 tier upgrade in drops, which translates to a more-than-1-tier upgrade in maps played. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit. Last edited by Char1983 on Oct 10, 2016, 11:20:08 AM
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