ZiggyD test for CoC 2.4 with Carl interview

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raics wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Shield charge + bino's assassin will do perfectly fine with the new CoC changes.

Will you play it in Essence then?

What you described is pretty much what a CoMK build could do before 2.4.
Was anyone playing it? Nope.

Spoiler

I used a Hege instead of Bino, though, to get a 5L on single target.

ComK is inherently weaker because of it's condition. It falls flat if you can't make that initial kill in higher maps.

It's poorly designed and reminds me of a conversation with vipermagi i had about shock.

If you can kill a target, why would you need it? It's clearly overkill at the cost of 2 slots.
And if you cant kill a target, you just lost 2 sockets worth of power.

Similar to how shock operates, if you can shock an opponent, why would you need it, your damage should already be at a level where it is sufficient.
And if you can't shock due to damage limitations, your punished further by not being allowed to apply the ailment.

The writing jar made it work somewhat, since it bypasses the condition in return for a flask slot. Which would still work if you used a single target to kill em all between internal cooldowns.(but nobody is going to do that)

What i described is nothing like that though.

What i described is a multi hit assault that doesn't require a non-character condition to succeed in order to take effect.

Shield charge -> chill and poison enemy's -> proq bladefall with hypo and poison so your effectively stacking damage.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : tl;dr could be

CoC = reliable since it functions of the character sheet
ComK = unreliable since it functions of environmental factors

edit 2 : for the record i never once played ComK, because i never saw any potential in it due to it's limitation and my desire to tackle harsh end-game content.
I did play CoC though, because it will always function when needed.

Well with watching the test video, it does not look to bad.

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Boem wrote:

What i described is nothing like that though.

That's pretty much what playing a CoMK build feels like, though, you make a high damage, concentrated hit with something like Ice Crash and then spells wipe the screen clean. The concept doesn't fail because you can't oneshot a white mob in high maps with a build designed to do that, the whole thing is just unnecessary and only introduces new problems instead of solving them.

Sure, I might be wrong, but I don't think new CoC will be even marginally popular if it stays this way. I predict a number of 'see? it works' builds and then a slow death.

^Well you basically repeated what i said, so i can't disagree with it.

The only difference being that a CoC oriented build can still excel at boss killing, while a ComK char has a difficult time doing so.
Which is what i implied by the writing jar and shock comparison section of my post.

If you can still one-shot entire packs with one button press and take down bosses in a reasonable time-frame, i see no reason why CoC shouldn't be played anymore.

It might lose it's grandeur in favor of better optimized meta builds, but then again, that's no different then the current state of the game where meta reigns supreme and only the people considered "fools" by the sheeple play for fun.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

The only difference being that a CoC oriented build can still excel at boss killing, while a ComK char has a difficult time doing so.

Which is what i implied by the writing jar and shock comparison section of my post.

Well, if both builds need a single target setup to do it now, there isn't really much difference. I don't really agree with writhing jar by the way, it's an item that enables CoC-like CoMK builds, aka 'I do no damage with my attacks so I can wear caster gear' more than serving as a boss only crutch, it isn't really an essential part of a regular CoMK setup. Possibly also because only weirdos play CoMK and weirdos don't fancy the idea of carrying a can of worms around, that's an instant 10 point penalty to coolness factor.

Dunno, man, I'll use it because I don't need a reason to play something and it's good enough for me, but most of the community would likely prefer something palpable. 'See this CoC reave? it can almost do the same as your regular reave with twice as much hassle' just isn't that.

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raics wrote:

What I don't like about it is that multiple spells and EE seem mandatory now.

I don't mind the amount or the nerf itself as I was advocating it for a long time, I mind the method and the worst thing about it from my standpoint is that the skill gem isn't attack speed aligned anymore. That's loss of identity there, extremely bad in my book.

Same happened to CoMK, it worked well with big hits because it's harder for spells to steal kills from you that way. Clearly strength aligned, you try to get as many kills as possible from one hit and get a big payload - very nice. The whole thing just has no flavor anymore.

It sounds like you're more blanket disappointed about a nerf, or just change in general. Why does building around EE equate to flavorless, while building around attack speed equates to compelling choice and identity?

On a tangential note, if what we saw in the video isn't fast/powerful enough for people and they're leaving the game over it, good riddance.

It looks dull and crummy but keep in mind spells have 39% more damage and fireball ice spear were finally allowed to have good damage.

Coc should not allow you to 1 shot event bosses by twirling around like a fool but maybe change the cool down to something that feels a bit more 'fast paced' and tone down the more damage a bit to compensate?

I'm casting storm call 10 times per second so having projectiles slowly drizzle out of my wand at 2 per second seems really off putting.

Does anyone know what build he is using in his vid? It looks really neat :)

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innervation wrote:

It sounds like you're more blanket disappointed about a nerf, or just change in general. Why does building around EE equate to flavorless, while building around attack speed equates to compelling choice and identity?

It's a good thing I never claimed to be consistent :)

But yeah, one makes sense because CoC is a green gem and CoMK is red and the other doesn't make sense because EE is some random keystone that has no connection whatsoever with triggering mechanics in general or otherwise. It's like saying that you need EB to make a self caster... which, of course, never happened and if it did it would never be patched out because that kind of thing is very good for the game.

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Romulas19 wrote:

Well with watching the test video, it does not look to bad.

Pfft you can kill faster than that with 4L ice nova on mid maps.
I do it faster with 3L
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGlR67NtYt8

That means nothing.

Show me real bosses like Core and uber with this crappy discharge. I cant log till i get back from vacation on Tuesday but someone please fire up thier discharger on std so i can laugh