Wilson, we've had a problem here
" How about thinking? Why are Mjolner and Discharge getting nerfed? Juggernauts. | |
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That feel when the first post of page 3 comes less than a minute after your last post of page 2.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" You start trying to "attack" people by branding the "thinking stick" and then just stop after "juggernaut" ? /rofl. Juggernaut is the only thing that made Discharge powerful lol, the only thing!!! But anyway ... I don't care ? Like, that was not my point at all. Ascendancy most likely still makes discharge in the AoW state more powerful than what it was when it came out. I guess you either need to think, or wait that somebody else thinks instead of you and you can copy his/her build then. Well you seem busy yelling on the forum atm anyway so .... SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz on Aug 31, 2016, 2:15:31 PM
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" ...and you didn't even think. | |
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Well... based on the timeline you could argue more nerfing than buffing, but during my entire playtime there was more buffing then nerfing. If you just go back to when they implemented Bladefall and Vortex then there would be an argument that they buffed a lot less than they nerfed, of course only if you take Ascendancies out of the equation.
Also nerfing is usually the better way and it isn't as if GGG doesn't do it regularly. But just looking at those 2.4 notes... I do see a lot of buffs. I do see somethings I would not have touched and I miss a few things that I would have expected to see (no changes to Hierophant, no changes to Chieftain, no changes to Assassin and no Changes to Ascendant). The Mjölnir changes might be a bit harsh, but then again it is a mechanical change which just affects Mjölnir as well, so they might exclude it later if it is too much, as they did with Nulls. Honestly nerfing a bit too much is a lot better, there are still plenty of possible builds out there and a few of there incredible powerful ones didn't even get touched. My Opus Assassin likely still does decently and RF Totems are also fairly powerful. And my Bladefall Totem build didn't even see a single change to it... oh wait, it got buffed because I can finally use Elemental Conflux (it was on kill before and my totems killed, so not much use of it :P). So overall the patchnotes make a lot of sense. I don't agree that they should never implement such things, because honestly players are two smart for that, they are likely a lot smarter than a small dev-team can ever be. So whenever you implement something it might be broken in a way you find out later. But if that is the case you should address that a bit earlier. And they made the mistake with CoC trying to fix it in small steps, they should have culled a lot of its power a lot earlier and brought it back up. But then again people are heavily influenced by builds streamers or popular community members use, which also means that very slight powershifts have huge influence since the people that set the tone are often very much min-maxing. | |
" Nerfing is just flipping the table or shoving the cards around to foul the game. Adding something, like secondary damage and DOT to counter acro-block, just changes the game while maintaining at least some of the original idea but changing other aspects. Edit: I feel I have to bold part of this next thing just because of the very recent posts I've had to deal with. Nerfing is usually the worst option, and when done too often it is a sign of carelessness, incompetence, and laziness. Last edited by Natharias on Aug 31, 2016, 4:06:20 PM
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" Well this doesn't change much. You would have to shift existing attacks from spells or attacks to either secondary damage or dots... which does hurt Acro/Block but hurts people even more not using both or would just make people not want to play Acro/Block anymore, because the investment is not worth it. The thing is it is really hard to make an entirely DoT based mechanic. It can't be chaos, otherwise CI would laugh at it. Physical is also an issue, due to how it would destroy non-block evasion builds even more. Also the DoT can't be applied by Attack or Spell... it would be blocked or dodged in that case. Nerfing the combination of Block and Dodge was the easiest way. I would have done it different (by setting max block to 50% from 75%), since the change did hurt Dualwield a lot for no real good reason, but the nerf in general was definitly ok. Also how is adding damage you cannot mitigate with your build not a nerf? It is. Not directly, but indirect nerfs are pretty common, right now the change to BV is mostly to nerf surgeons without affecting other things too much. | |
" LOL whut? I hope to God you're playing stupid. If you add something that deals a new type of damage, you don't have to do diddly squat else. No shifting attacks into spells (how?) or spells into attacks, or armor into fire damage, or anything else. I have no idea what the fuck you're getting at with this. The only difference between Fireball and Detonate Dead is that Fireball can be blocked, dodged, and mitigated by fire resistance. Detonate Dead completely ignores block and dodge, but is still mitigated by fire resistance. A Righteous Fire build will not feel a difference between Fireball and Detonate Dead, but Detonate Dead will be a huge shocker to an acro-block build. " As mentioned, a cast, like Detonate Dead. Alternatively, it could be an RF-like effect enemies emanate over time so that acro-block needs to maintain a distance. It would not be difficult to add this stuff. RF is pure DOT. The only hard part were the graphics. " Again, yes, nerfing is the easiest, but rarely a good option. In this case, it was a terrible decision that limited build diversity. I cannot think of one acro-block build right now. Your limit would have done nothing to change the game and would still have hurt dual-wielding block builds. " It's an addition. Adding enemies that deal secondary damage would simply be new content, not a nerf to acro-block. As to the indirect nerf, that would simply be referred to as a counter. Bearers to Vaal Cyclone. | |
" So it can't be both? I guess my damage didn't get a huge buff from asc skills, it got addiotioned. In your world, if GGG created a gem that gives 10000% global more dmg it is not considered a buff to players, only an addition, and only a buff if they later give it 0,0001% more dmg. Plise logic me week brein :X You just wasted 3 seconds reading this.
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Problem with nerfs imo, is killing builds completely... During time, I have enjoyed the many possibilities this game offers, when making char. But almost all patches just destroy many completely. Yes new ones pop up at times... and get rekt later on patch ofc, like rest of skills... but destroying many ones totally on each patch, actually limits build diversity a lot. Feels like the further this game "develops", more and more builds just die away. If I now think of the ones that are capable of completing the really hard stuff, I really cannot anymore think of very many choices.
Reflect already limits enough, together with the damage mitigations nerf I think... Sucks that few op builds F up this game. Skills/builds totally stomped to ground, is only "balance" devs can ever think of? GGG could I think do better job in this area... Flushing cast on crit down the toilet is the worst for me, are totally my favourite builds to work around with... Well used to be, will not be anymore. Sure, it still "works", I suppose still pops a spell every now and then... and sure can empty dried lake under 30 min maybe, so yeah it still "works"... but I consider this "nerf" on CoC, the same as just deleting the gem from game... 100% unusable now, like so so many skill gems earlier also. So I guess can still do minion, trap or totem build, or phys melee... nice. :I When started this game, was awed by the char build possibilities... not anymore. Honestly cannot think of as many viable possibilities anymore, as two hand fingers could count. Not to mention items and gems... almost all chars now end up using very many same items/gems, and always for same reasons... and now even more so, after patch, not good at all. These patch notes made me first time in years, feel like not wishing to make a build at all anymore actually... Sometime ago, I still thought I never see this happen: but I think I go now just google them few op-as-hell builds and pick some... zero motivation to do anything else anymore. Using time to build planning, has become a waste of time, thanks to all these nerfs. Now it's like: "use one of these few skills, and items, and gems, or fail". So now can just google what to use, since cannot anyways use what would wish to. If GGG makes the choice for skills and gems to use (by limiting "good" ones to few), some other random person can choose how to use them for all I care. Feels I'm not needed for this planning-part anymore. I really wonder why they don't just delete stuff from this game, they don't want players use... You know, half of skill gems and most of good uniques... and few ascendancy classes as well. This would also limit the use in similiar way, and saves dev's time. What next? Pre-built chars, since people do not make kind of chars GGG wants them to? Would also solve the issue with people exploring stuff in this, and being succesful. |
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