Counterintuitive to the current clear speed meta: Slow the Game Back Down

play cleave build...

you will get ur slow paced game you desire

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Miazga wrote:

play cleave build...

you will get ur slow paced game you desire

That does make some sense, we know there are people out there playing crap builds because they like the pacing and extra challenge. Seems it's working fine, everybody gets his kicks.

But it isn't as clear-cut, we got people like OP that would prefer to play slower but still minmax their chars because that's the friggin point of an ARPG, ending up in speedy gonzales zone no matter what they do (pardon the assumption, Blackstar). You know what I'm trying to say here, we have people that supposedly hate the lab but still farm the stuffing out of it because it's rewarding, not because they have conflicting emotions or like to punish themselves.

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raics wrote:

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Miazga wrote:

play cleave build...

you will get ur slow paced game you desire

That does make some sense, we know there are people out there playing crap builds because they like the pacing and extra challenge. Seems it's working fine, everybody gets his kicks.

But it isn't as clear-cut, we got people like OP that would prefer to play slower but still minmax their chars because that's the friggin point of an ARPG, ending up in speedy gonzales zone no matter what they do (pardon the assumption, Blackstar). You know what I'm trying to say here, we have people that supposedly hate the lab but still farm the stuffing out of it because it's rewarding, not because they have conflicting emotions or like to punish themselves.

I don't really know if your assumption is correct or not. :|

I do want us to be able to minmax our characters yes, I do want builds that reach those 1mill tooltip or theoretical dps but with an insane amount of investment. I agree with other people commenting here that flat slow down might be too brutal of a pace, mostly that I want boss fights to be a pain in the ass again and not be a simple defense and dps check and ignore the mechanics of the boss fight entirely in favor of flask spamming and out dpsing their life pool. I want this game to be friendly enough to casual players that they don't feel like they can't get anywhere versus their friends that play more hours but also not let them steamroll over every mob in maps including the unique ones. I can't even remember the last time a rogue exile from a box was a problem anymore, half the time I don't even see which exile it was because whatever skills I am using just obliterate them before I can care to feel any thrill of a stronger enemy.

I liked shavronne's and stuff costing a lot more exalts than they are now instead of dirt cheap unless there is an ID challenge. Sure not 60ex for a min rolled t1 unique but floating at 15 to 20 exalts without a 6l would have been fine in my book. Because now when you release new uniques like Victario's Influence it is hard to build around as a aurabot versus shavronne's wrappings - even though the entire existence of the influence is to be an aurabot for a group! Besides conflicts of uniques like that the general drop increases of t1 made those top end builds too cheap and too easy to accomplish. I personally don't care if they are build enabling, they should have remained t1 enabling and not just another build like any other. The only time a build is inherently stronger than any other now is because it is designed by a rich person with mirror items.

I also just loved the feeling when I finally got a non-legacy kaom's heart drop before the buff drops. You really don't get to feel that big ticket drop moment anymore unless you get a skyforth's.


I also knew some people where going to come in here with the smarmy "play these shitty builds to get that feeling." This may be selfish but I don't want this to be a self imposed play style, I'm hoping this is the playstyle and instead all skills are messed with to get them on a relatively even playing field. Cleave should be just as effective as a Reave build. Elemental hit should be equally as viable as Righteous Fire and everything, not a laughing stock for years.

Sure there will always be discrepancies between skills but they should be smaller then they are now. Instead we get new skills every expansion and elemental hit, the nerfed cleave, etc that are literally abandoned like a common trading card because they are worthless. Sure people play those builds by choice but it is the equivalent of that one kid on the bus who would trade all his rarer cards away because he liked the pictures on the common cards better. He has fun, but everybody else gets to make off with a much more valuable collection.

Also the vault map reveal last night gave me a tiny hope that they are in fact attempting to slow the meta down a bit with all the lever pulling you can see. I don't think this is the best direction though as even I will tire of it if this is the only way they can think to slow down mapping. I like the lab but too much of it seeping into maps would get on even lab supporter's nerves. I can understand the vault having them but there would only be so many maps that you could blend traps in without looking forced.

I don't understand why people think teh clear speed meta hasn't been around even before Ascendancy. The drop rates are too low in this game to slog through 15 second rare fights.

You want to slow the game down? Then raise drop rates (yeah I know...crazy right?)

I'm okay with the current drop rates assuming we have similar clear speeds as we have seen in the last few seasons...anything less and this game would feel really shitty.

To be fair, this game still feels shitty when you have a bad RNG run. Clear speed is required, imo, to level that feeling out a little bit.

My assumption was, at minimum make bosses an effort to fight and in return let them have nicer loot explosions again. With loot filters it makes it look like bosses drop like 3 good base rares and a map if you are lucky. I would like to see a bunch of rares show up that are worthy of not being filtered out, decent odds of unique drops versus regular mobs and in general more loot rate out of tougher fights.

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PleiadesBlackstar wrote:

I would like to point out that in my view, GGG was already trying to get us to slow down with traps and lab mechanics.

What I do not like about this "slow down" in the lab is that it is artificial, absolute, clunky and completely ignores the previously established rules of the game.
Example to make it clear: There is a spike trap. It goes up just when I get there. It will block me for 4 (or whatever) seconds. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it. It doesnt matter whether I spent 50 passives in strength. I cannot break the spikes. Or if I spent 50 passives in dexterity. I cannot jump over or wriggle through either. RPG is about character growth. But character growth is invalidated by the spike trap. The whole point of the game is invalidated by that spike trap.

Actually my example implies that this is not completely true. If I would have spent 50 passive points in movement I may have been able to zooooooom through it before it did go up. Of course this is the exact opposite of slowing down the game.

I am all for buffing the monster hp vs player damage ratio. I am against the artifical stuff GGG comes up like invulnerable monsters (proximity shield, Daresso, Malachai, Atziri, whatever) or the hard blockades in the lab. These do not fix the actual problem and turn the game into some other type of game. They also lead to "build equalization" in some sense. Like ranged and melee need to get close to the proximity shield target. So both need the defenses to survive that. So variety for gameplay (get close) and stats (survivability) is reduced by such absolute mechanics.

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Zrevnur wrote:

There is a spike trap. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

It just looks impossible, what you need is sonar for your bat form which can be found in Olrox's Quarters. Once you have that, it's a simple matter to navigate the spikes and get the Spike Breaker armor, no spikes will stop you then.

People aim for "efficiency".

The problem is that currently

"speed efficiency" = "experience efficiency" + "loot efficiency"

A speed meta should be allowed and encouraged for people that are playing PoE for the competition.

However, alternatives to playing PoE for the competition should allow other forms of efficiency.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Miazga wrote:

play cleave build...

you will get ur slow paced game you desire

That's my gladiator Fred....he's no tank, more like an armoured personnel carrier, doesn't use haste, rarely uses a quicksilver flask, so he's also a bit on the slow side. Main attack is on a 5l Belly. He's now level 92. I'm having great fun playing him though :)