[2.5] 2600+ Int Whispering Ice Guardian. Wonderous Wizard of Wisdom

Hi,

I have a question about enchantments. I managed to get Skyforth and now I'm wondering what the best enchantment would be... I'm running the Scorching Ray version because I use this char mainly for bosses.

My question is, what is the best enchantment to use? I currently got the "120% Increased Critical Chance if you haven't crit recently".

Is that better than the one that penetrates 10% ele resists? I'm thinking from a boss perspective now.

Managed to pull it out, shit is so OP that I am done with it. The best experience I had with any build when it comes to melting opponents. It's rare to see a so well thought build with every point that matters.

"

Resine wrote:

Managed to pull it out, shit is so OP that I am done with it. The best experience I had with any build when it comes to melting opponents. It's rare to see a so well thought build with every point that matters.

Glad to hear you had a good experience with the build, your kind words are appreciated :)

Unfortunately I don't have the time to read through 54 pages to see if this has been addressed before, but I wished to bring this to your attention:

"

WaffleT wrote:

Heirophant and Scion also have notables that scale flat ES off mana but since GGG doesn't want those classes to be viable their conversions don't include the mana gained from %increased mana.

Compared to this:

Heirophant Sanctuary of Thought potentially a bug.

Specifically:

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

Energy Shield modifiers definitely do apply to the conveted mana->es. Like with all things that use the conversion mechanics, it's also affected by modifiers to what it was (mana) and additive modifiers to either of these things apply additively. It's affected by increased mana and by increased energy shield, but those things are additive modifiers and will apply additively with each other.

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Kwitch wrote:

Unfortunately I don't have the time to read through 54 pages to see if this has been addressed before, but I wished to bring this to your attention:

"

WaffleT wrote:

Heirophant and Scion also have notables that scale flat ES off mana but since GGG doesn't want those classes to be viable their conversions don't include the mana gained from %increased mana.

Compared to this:

Heirophant Sanctuary of Thought potentially a bug.

Specifically:

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

Energy Shield modifiers definitely do apply to the conveted mana->es. Like with all things that use the conversion mechanics, it's also affected by modifiers to what it was (mana) and additive modifiers to either of these things apply additively. It's affected by increased mana and by increased energy shield, but those things are additive modifiers and will apply additively with each other.

Believe me I spent much time reading and testing all three classes to see how their mechanics work as scion and Heiophant would be really interesting if their mana was applied in the same way as the guardian

My statment is a more simplified version to communicate the reality easier. Technically it does scale but since it applies addiviely like Mark says thats pretty much the same as not applying at all compared to the Guardian who gets their applied mutiplicatvily which is something you can actually scale off from. This has been tested and confirmed by others as well as by myself.

This works because the transferring of mana into ES is happening within the same formula so when the extra ES is being added so the "increased % mana" and "increased % ES" are just added together addivitivly which is barely notable and why the people in that thread thought it wasn't working at all

For the guardian the extra mana is gained first as an "increased % mana" and then when you turn on auras it updates in real time to gain extra ES which then goes through the "increased % ES" by itself which is like a multiplier and not an "increased" so produces a greater effect

Its like how vulnerability says they "take increased physical damage" but this acts as a multiplier because its being applied at the end of the chain after all the "% increased damage" effects have already happened and so acts as a full mutiplier to damage not just as "% increased damage"

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WaffleT wrote:

since it applies addiviely like Mark says thats pretty much the same as not applying at all compared to the Guardian who gets their applied mutiplicatvily which is something you can actually scale off from.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

first edit for what it's worth, scaling additively does give more energy shield than zero. increased es applies to your end total of maximum mana.

conversion rules are as follows:

you take your base number. you multiply that by the sum of your increases to get the final amount (sum es).

Then

you have your normative energy shield total.

What you mean to say is that the energy shield granted from Sanctuary of thought is not added to the base ES of the character for increases to the output as a higher number. I don't see how you have decided there is a distinction in these two mechanics when there is not. Both Heirophant and Guardian are granted extra energy shield. Both are subject to increases in that total due to their total mana (and mana increases) and energy shield increases. In the same fashion.

Stating that one class doesn't follow these rules is erroneous.

second edit

As Extra vs. Gain Maximum.


I am also willing to do math or testing to confirm this. I have both level 90 guardians and heirophants, healthy mind jewels, and spreadsheets. If you still believe your working model of how this functions is counter to GGG's posts and the mechanics of every other interaction, I'll gladly continue to resolve the function of these until we agree on the outcome.

I believe you understand both mechanics, and are simply unhappy that one is inferior to the other... but it doesn't have to be.

third edit

Found a nice screenshot detailing how increases in mana increase ES.
http://s24.postimg.org/gphf35qad/New_Bitmap_Image.png

Stating that 1 < or = 0 is just plain wrong.

I think what you mean to say is that 300 increased ES < 2000 increased ES. However, and especially since your build stacks mana, I think you might surprise yourself with the results as a hierophant.

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Kwitch wrote:

Stating that 1 < or = 0 is just plain wrong.

I think what you mean to say is that 300 increased ES < 2000 increased ES. However, and especially since your build stacks mana, I think you might surprise yourself with the results as a hierophant.

Yep thats a thing called exaggeration and simplification. I already admitted that the post in the main page was an exaggeration as that page is already overloading with data, I even added a tongue in cheek poke at ggg to show that. I'm not sure why you reworded my comment to again state that its not exactly 0 but at a level so much lower that the difference is build changing

I first made this character as a heirophant with the intention of stacking mana, I got to around level 80 and noticed how the mechanics were working and that it wasn't worth it since the rest of the ascendency is useless to the build and scaling off extra mana was the only point. I swapped into guardian and immdietly noticed the improved conversion rate of that class despite the lower % of mana being turned into ES.

After researching this is in the forums I learnt that other people had also realised this was how the mechanics were working including the mechanics thread you quoted where the people in that were expressing their dissapointed after learning of Marks clarification to its rules as how it is being calculated makes it alot worse then a plain reading of the notable would imply

Feel free to try it yourself. I would be quite happy if they did change the mechanics of heirophant to match as the class needs a buff. I definetly expect Guardian and Heirophant to get changed in 3.0. Guardian needs a nerf and Heirophant needs a buff

Could somebody say me pls now correctly what gems i should use on which party of armor BSC?

I dont understand it.....thanks^^

Well, I didn't change anything you said, simply added italics and bold to the points I took issue with. For emphasis. But your approach to stating that you are simply dissatisfied with Hierophant is totally fine, and I didn't mean to be obnoxious just to prove a point.

As for my initial question... I figured with having 2600 INT, if any build was going to make good use of Hierophant, it would be yours. So I was disappointed not to find any math or examples of how it performed, and instead just a 'no thanks'.

I would still love to see it in action if such a test character exists...

As for future buffs... we shall see. As I mentioned, I have tested both guardian and Hiero for breach league and had similar opinions of each. I simply wished to be able to feature even 1 hierophant build for the build listings. heh.

Whispering Ice is a bit difficult for my current project, but perhaps I will make a spreadsheet to indicate how it could perform in theory.

Cheers

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PoE_Denis wrote:

Could somebody say me pls now correctly what gems i should use on which party of armor BSC?

I dont understand it.....thanks^^

Weapon:
Life Leech - Faster Casting - Spell Echo - Cold Penetration - Elemental Focus - Controlled Destruction/Concentrated Effect

Helmet:
Enlighten - Discipline - Purity of Fire - Purity of Ice

Armour:
Blood Magic - Purity of Elements - Purity of Lightning - Clarity - Enlighten

Boots:
Cast when Damage Taken - Enfeeble/Warlord's Mark - Molten Shell (Potentially Frost Bomb)

Gloves:
Up to you. Options were listed. Movement skill / Orb of Storms / golem / etc.