Damn reflection

Reflect was and will be all time a problem because its JUST BAD MECHANIC.

The game is not made to counter the mechanic that exist within it. Like always, developers team of this game is full of people that design stuff, but nobody calculate what happens "IF".

Why I say that the game isnt made for reflect? Because the player damage with each upcoming update start to increase superb fast comparing to defense. That is actualy what make reflect harder and harder to counter. The game contradict itself with expansions like ascendency where it gives you tons of damage and almost no defense bonuses. Go and see how many ascendency class skills give defense similar to the offense (the only good one is fortify).

If a player puts everything into offense he will have stats like:
300% more damage + 1000% increases + 700% criticals and such, gigantic numbers simply saying.

If a player puts everything into defense he will have just 400% hp increase and thats all.
Why thats all? Because most builds wont run on endruance chargers or fortify since many of them are ranged and its counter intuitive to even use it.

Additionaly if you build physical damage the armor wont help you at all, because some guy at GGG long ago, in closed beta made formula with say, that the harder you get hit, the less armor take effect in damage reducion you take. And like I wrote above, your armor grows much slower than damage in each upcoming update with make it more and more useless.

And last and most important thing, that I always write in reflect threads. The only good way to check if some mechanic should even exist is to introduce opposite mechanic to it and check if it even make sense.
So if reflect take all your offense and direct it against yourself, then there should be also mechanic that direct all your defense against you. Well ofc that would be nonsense with is nothing more than proof that reflect is broken in its core concept and is nothing more than copy paste from diablo games (just like resistance drops in difficulty changes and many more. I know we love diablo, but it was one of most broken game in balance terms that existed.

is paragon of calamity the answer? It appears to be the answer based on its
desription.

however, sybils didnt save me when I tried it vs reflect...

will paragon of calamity?

usually, reflect is only an issue if you do a crit build or maybe a high spell damage build, in which case you take Vaal Pact and at least 2% leech. Resolute technique builds can survive reflect mobs with leech alone.

"

AgnosiousD wrote:

is paragon of calamity the answer? It appears to be the answer based on its
desription.

however, sybils didnt save me when I tried it vs reflect...

will paragon of calamity?

If you take both paragon of calamity and a left-ring sybil's lament, you'll have 80% reduced reflect damage taken. Combined with 75% resists, that means you're dealing 5% of the reflect damage to yourself.

With a standard 18% reflect map, you thus need only above 0.9% leech with vaal pact in order to guarantee out-leeching your damage, no matter how much DPS you have. The only thing left that can kill you is a single giant hit; you're only dealing .9% damage to yourself, which means that if you have a relatively standard 5k life or ES, you need to have single-hit single-target damage exceeding 500,000.

I think that's literally impossible. 500k DPS is normal, hell, a couple million DPS is normal for strong builds, but that's while scaling attacks/cast per second along with everything else. Doing that much damage in 1 hit, even with a crit, is totally unheard of.

So basically, just take vaal pact!

"

herflik wrote:

And last and most important thing, that I always write in reflect threads. The only good way to check if some mechanic should even exist is to introduce opposite mechanic to it and check if it even make sense.
So if reflect take all your offense and direct it against yourself, then there should be also mechanic that direct all your defense against you. Well ofc that would be nonsense with is nothing more than proof that reflect is broken in its core concept and is nothing more than copy paste from diablo games (just like resistance drops in difficulty changes and many more. I know we love diablo, but it was one of most broken game in balance terms that existed.

...

I can see where you were going with that except you made a bit of a mistake in your thinking.

The opposite of a mechanic that causes a portion of damage you deal to be reflected back to you is a mechanic that causes damage enemies deal to be reflected to them.
Which makes perfect sense, even if it only exists at the moment in a few completely negligible ways.

Or perhaps a mechanic that causes a portion of damage you deal to returned to you as healing.
Which we have in life leech, but I digress.

The 'opposite mechanic' you came up with is like the opposite of culling being a mechanic that turns an enemy invulnerable and immortal when it's at full health.

Or the opposite of bleed being a mechanic which makes standing still hurt you.



But to my way of thinking, reflect is just one of those things like Volatile Flame/Ice/Storm blood enemies or Flame/Frost/Storm Bearers packs.
It's a counterbalance to clear-speed, glass-cannon builds.

"

herflik wrote:

If a player puts everything into defense he will have just 400% hp increase and thats all.
Why thats all? Because most builds wont run on endruance chargers or fortify since many of them are ranged and its counter intuitive to even use it.

There's more to defence than health, endurance charges and fortify.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but physical reflect is relatively easy to deal with, by converting it with phys to lightning, or by swapping out to a elemental conversion attack, like blast rain, ice crash, lightning arrow, molten strike, etc.

You however have practically no ways of dealing with ele reflect, apart from converting it to chaos damage.

This is something I think should really be looked at if reflect is to be kept as a game mechanic.

"

LightningStars wrote:

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but physical reflect is relatively easy to deal with, by converting it with phys to lightning, or by swapping out to a elemental conversion attack, like blast rain, ice crash, lightning arrow, molten strike, etc.

You however have practically no ways of dealing with ele reflect, apart from converting it to chaos damage.

This is something I think should really be looked at if reflect is to be kept as a game mechanic.

An elementalist should frankly always have enough leech to be reflect-proof. Even without sybil's lament you only need 2.25% leech to match.

hikaru!

I just specced into calamity and tested on a reflect map.

drastically less deadly... still deadly. but I could shave apart
mobs a little bit here and there, as long as my flasks held up
(zero leech pure dps build. 100k FP.)

I threw on cybils... wow. then shit got serious.

with _NO LEECH_ I was flat out able to clear white mobs per flask
use. 9 monsters dead, one flask charge used. thats a biiiiiiig deal.

with life leech i could just flat out stay 100% health until struck
by something other than reflect. I may do that on several archived corrupted
red maps I could never get done... I do have a second 6l with a red link.
(use it for IIR / IIQ when magic finding)

ok so. I immediately refute 80% of any damage that reaches my body.
I then cut it down by 76%.

the SECOND time I get the damage I refute 88% of it (thats huuuuuuge)
and then cut it down by 76% the whole while though my elemental
damage is boosted by 40% so its hard to notice the lower damage
but the reflected damage is indeed a touch lower.

WOW.

I get it now hikaru.

I can manage this... Excellent.

*edit: life leech mod on wand might do a lot to keep me clearing!!
would only hurt dps a little bit.

*edit2: just isolated the map boss without cybils on, and opened fire.
no problem. without cybils.... I now strongly believe that I wont be
killed by reflect without a sustained effort against a single reflect mob
(on a red map) I will definitely see it coming.

Good to hear, have fun.

"

AdFinitum wrote:

"

If you can't handle groups then don't play in groups.

I solo everything and reflect is no problem, as a physical tornado shot user who melts bosses in seconds.

Very self centered ? YOU dont play in groups, YOU play a Dot build and dont one shot yourself so YOU are fine with players who prefer other builds off screen one shotting themselves to reflect ?

I can only hope you will play a high damage build yourself one day and get to know the disappointment when a super fun build isnt fun anymore because you will die to reflect eventually without any solution.

he may have been rude to you, but he just solved the exact problem I had that you specified.
my fp glass cannon is almost reflect proof. now I can fire indiscriminately without knowing what
or even where I'm firing.

100k FP does not let you move. you get hit once, it never stops. reflect and izaro are the only
weaknesses I have. everything else is accounted for. I used to occasionally get fucked over
by moving too deep into a pack in order to scout it... now I dont fuckin care. DIE DIE DIE