0.9.13 (Closed beta) was more balanced, and funnier

I agree, overall CB was more fun (shameless bump for a great thread) :)

Aren't you guys afraid that putting all that pressure on the devs is gonna change the game in some undesireable way? After all what kind of game would that be if it was just a mix of EVERYONE's wishes.

Now I haven't played the CB but have been playing OB since start a lot and haven't reached endgame yet hitting a wall with every character so far and being insanely frustrated. Nevertheless I'm still playing. So I see the balance issues and I posted in threads like this before whining about it. But obviously there is something that this guys got right since we are still here. In fact I can hardly believe that this game is for free.

Reading all this posts I can't help but wonder how it makes the devs feel. Hopefully they can withstand the pressure and the game stays true to what they have planned for and doesn't succumb to what everyone else has planned for it. Let's be frank: That would suck!

That being said although I agree with most of the points made in this thread I choose to trust the devs to get it right eventually.

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Hecate67 wrote:

I agree, overall CB was more fun (shameless bump for a great thread) :)

It was more fun, but it already had pangs of this back in Jan 2012 with MOC which was stupidly hard compared to the final playthrough.

Basically they did a Jay Wilson and doubled the difficulty. Look how that decision turned out for D3... GGG however are actively courting a more hardcore audience but I do wonder were they think their revenue will come from with such a niche crowd.

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TylerRand wrote:

Aren't you guys afraid that putting all that pressure on the devs is gonna change the game in some undesireable way?

Not really. I think the devs know their game and are smart enough, and have lots of smart people giving them good, note good, feedback (Yes, some of the feedback is really crappy) to make balance tweaks that will mostly benefit the game and make it more fun.

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Moosifer wrote:

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Emphasy wrote:

Well in that case it is easy to only fight him when he is not able to cast the smash. I prefer staying in melee-range because the smash isn't very dangerous and the fight goes way faster, but it is easy to play safe and only attack him while he is doing other stuff. It was never a requirement to dodge the smash, since it is easy to battle him without him even trying to smash you. But only attacking him while he is occupied with other attacks makes the battle longer, which is a drawback but propably acceptable. If the smash still kills you the connection or the laptop are bad enough that tons of other stuff kills you too.

I know how to face vaal. Because my laptop is shitty, all it takes is him throwing down the ice and I'm lagged to hell. I couldn't get out of the way of anything. I understand I have to deal with this so I build for HC (a little less extreme than HC because I'm a balance nut) but play default. Generally my only deaths are to lag or being one shot from a crazy situation, vaal has both of these factors leaving me with no option but to die. He inactive enough after his slam to have enough time to recover but if you are one shot there's no option to recover.

And that's only merciless vaal. I can't imagine what Maze map vaal is like now as he was insane on a 68 map, now that he's on a mid-70 map I don't see many builds having a remote chance of tanking him.

@Maze Vaal: I found out, believe me, i did. He smashed a Totem and i died to the AoE half a screen away. 6300 HP, 80 Resist, 12800 Armor. :)

One other thing, Imho in CB there was a little less emphasis on itemization than in OB (with the added chaos resistance penalty, es mods nerf, clarity nerf etc), now each time I'm looking for gear upgrade past lvl 50 I always *need* something which I would have considered near godly in CB, but maybe it's just me... :s

I got that vibe a lot as well. Everything you get needs to be so good to stand a chance.

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RodHull wrote:

It was more fun, but it already had pangs of this back in Jan 2012 with MOC which was stupidly hard compared to the final playthrough.

Basically they did a Jay Wilson and doubled the difficulty. Look how that decision turned out for D3... GGG however are actively courting a more hardcore audience but I do wonder were they think their revenue will come from with such a niche crowd.

You know I have always wondered what "Hardcore gamers" are supposed to be?
People with lots of time?
People with good hand-eye coordination?
People with a good tactical mind?
People with the willingness to analyze game mechanics and theorycraft?

What kind of "Hardcore" is PoE supposed to appeal to? Being "skilled" is just such a vague term. Is squeezing the passive tree for the most effective build possible "skill"?

Anyways, I think the game that comes closest to a "hardcore ARPG" was the Median Mod for D2. And for me, even though I wouldn't consider myself "hardcore" that game was great fun. I never experienced all the lategame content, but just building characters and killing monsters was very rewarding.

PoE at the same time feels more rewarding and less fun. It feels more rewarding because there seems to be so much potential behind the passive tree and the skill system. It just seems like there is always something new to try. Getting behind complex mechanics and discovering new ways to succeed at challenges is rewarding, and the system of PoE is perfect for that.
However, the actual gameplay seems less fun, mainly because there never is a feeling of power. In Median, everything just feels OP. Every skill you have seems OP. Defensive Abilities sound OP. When you are slicing your way through normal mobs, you feel OP. But there are very powerful elite Mobs and Champions that are even more OP. That require tactics and gear to beat.

The variance in mob difficutly should be higher, in my opinion. Give us lots of cannon fooder to slice though, interspersed with tougher groups and a handfull of really challenging encounters. It's fine to die a few times to vaal or piety until you have figured out how to counter their abilities, but it's no fun to slowly and carefully slog through just regular mobs.

I would have to agree with the OP. Unfortunately balance seems to be a huge problem at the moment, and it's killing build diversity.

IDEA:
Something that might help would be rewarding players for taking damage nodes, nerf normal mob damage SLIGHTLY so that glass cannons are plausible, but either increase mob health or decrease the player's base damage, so that a tank build is exactly that A TANK, not the basis for a build. Sure, make it so builds need at least some tankiness, but even a hardcore game should reward damage over building tank.



I'm honestly finding myself a bit bored and possibly might leave the game alone until a balance patch comes out. Builds are a bit stale, there are only a few viable builds in late game if you don't want to spend all day trying to get through one area, and that's not really any fun.

Also chaos resistance is a bit of a joke, the late game -60% penalty is ridiculous, I don't want my marauder taking 60% more chaos damage if I can't find any decent drops with +hp and chaos resists.

I agree since OB started ive not been having nearly as much fun as in CB...