Concerns about Scion balance after 2.3

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and i know one thing. some (not all) people complaining about this 'unbelievable' hit to their spellcasters would be amazed just how EASIER it is to play spellcaster than melee build. this Scion nerf is targeted at spellcasters - true. but it is targeted there for a reason - it is a braindead easy to play spellcasters with this node (and will be when Berserker Iron Will meta in 2.3 settles). i have a FIREBALL caster build that relies on Blasphemy+Warlords (and as i kill offscreen i rarely leech anyway) that is just click-click-click to victory, no risk when stuff burns 2 screens away. compare that with melee guys and youll see.

And when you say this, you play league yes? Or is this in standard? Mostly self found or trade? Any of those make a difference. I assume you are starting from level 1 and getting to maps to make a good comparison and not just play for a bit and make a judgement?
I am using EQ Juggernaut in the 2 week league, works fine.
Casters are usually easier than melee for levelling, people know this, you make it sound like it is news. Casters are however limited to their gem levels and suffer late game. Melee suffer late game too if you play self found, but if you trade, it isn't an issue. Your DPS will exceed a caster's easily.

Scion's nerf because they have one OP setup, which is pretty much known right off the bat with the Deadeye subclass. It wasn't too hard to put two and two together, with the buff to spark and Scion - Deadeye having everything that spark needs.

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Scion is not worthless. it is just - like when introduced - not a beginners class. nodes she has are good but just - no longer - better than dedicated classes' nodes. if you come up with a build that can benefit synergy between two classes - Scion is better. if you want to play a Deadeye as a Scion - you are not going to be successful

By that, you mean like it was weaker than the other classes, yes? It was a fine class prior to Ascendancy compared to other classes. It became a niche class when Ascendancy came out. There aren't much variety for builds for Scion with Ascendancy. A bunch of mediocre sub classes does not make a good build.
Now, with the new changes, there are almost no builds you can do that you can't do better as another class. You must know how powerful Ascendancy nodes are?

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btw - to put my point across - people crying about 'Scion pierce nerf' are so bad that they forgot that there is a unique jewel (starting one) that gives 15% pierce. suddenly the nerf is not so bad anymore (95% pierce or 105% with drillneck. this nerf changes NOTHING). but to know that one has to spend some time learning stuff.

The fact that Scion only has 2 Major Ascendant Nodes compared to 4 Major Ascendant Nodes is the problem. The nerfs didn't help either.
No one is forgetting anything, you are making it sound like only you know how to theorycraft.

I'll say this much, i'll no longer play as scion anymore. Aside from the niche start from secondary starting area it has nothing that can compete with the other ascendancies now. Berserker was the only node i'd have considered playing it for (as it gave casters a decent leech without a gem) but thats getting butchered as well. And whats up with this "if you have killed recently" acronyms? Its unreliable, i dont care about any bonus that works on trash only. Any half decent build can do any trash in the game, bosses are what matters yet we are being shoved to our throats with these "short time after kill only" bonuses and pretend that they are worth it.

Problem is that ascendancies are powerful enough that anything scion can do other classes can do it much better especially with the revised bonuses. If the tree in poeplanner is true(which i believe it is, ggg did released the notes), scion will be in a coma, waiting to be revived during 2.3.

With power creep added to other classes like "max charges jagger" - Scion Ascendant will be extinct this league. Absolutely 0 point to pick it in comparsion to other options. (Ofcourse speaking for non shit builders)

I'm not going to comment on the Berserker leech situation, but maybe if they weren't all so terrible it wouldn't be so awful to see the leech nerfed lol.

Almost all of the Scion Ascendancies are just small stat increases, almost all of them are worse than their major counterparts, and there is very little synergy.

The alternate start is also way more niche than GGG probably realizes. The only type of thing this might enable are builds that need opposite corners, like a bad Ranged Attack Totem build where you want the Ranger area and Ancestral Bond or something.

Basically, Scion is going to be bad for any serious player lol.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Yeah you've been spoilt with Pathfinder. Flasks are not always easy to keep up unless you're running easy open layout maps like Gorge. No person playing seriously at lvl90+ is going to just rely on flasks for leech.

Back in 1.2 I lvl'd to 100 with ST CoC with just Atziri's Promise as my leech. That was when reflect was an aura. Also I had 21% cold res and half my dps was cold.
Currently in 2.2 I'm lvl 97 with Cyclone CoC with just 1 Vinktar's as my source of leech. There's no issue with relying on flasks for defense if you're paying attention.

Yeah.. they nerfed 2 out of 3 scion nodes that werent garbage tier (and also zerk was most versatile of them - almost everyone wants dmg and lifesteal, and deadeye is just good in ranged meta) and as bonus they added another major node to other classes.. so its 4 major asc bonuses vs 2 for scion and all of scion asc nodes are weak compared to other classes bonuses...
So, its pretty easy.. you can still play scion, but you will be stronger 99% of the time when playing same build with other class - no points of playing scion.

I love scions, their voice, animations etc... But I already started new witch char, wont touch my scions after 2.3 until they fix this BS "balance".

Berserker from ascendant was designed badly in the first place, it should never have had stronger leech than Berserker class itself. And that leech was single factor that made scion such an excellent class. Bye bye leech and bye bye ascendant, now you are going right into the trash bin

Something tells me that Prophecy is going to be league of Marauder Berserker casters ;)

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raxleberne wrote:

Something tells me that Prophecy is going to be league of Marauder Berserker casters ;)

If that happens, and it might, then they flunked the design yet again. Personally, I don't see the bloody point behind having generic leech on a Berserker, you know, a Berserker, a brute that hits things with other things, hard.

When you introduce a thematically specialized class you may make its minor abilites general, but main ones should stay focused. So, Berserker leech should be 'attack leech' like those duelist passives and 40% more damage should be 40% more melee damage. Otherwise you will have a bunch of archer and caster Berserkers running around, enjoying the damage and leech bonus from safety and making absolutely no sense at all.

Want a Marauder caster? Cool, get a Chieftain, or get a Juggernaut for a tanky caster. A Jugger is a valid option because has no direct interactions with spellcasting itself, but a Berserker does, and I feel he should neither prevent it nor encourage it.

Problem is that Berserker was only useable node in ascendancy for any non-totem\non-trap build as a scion. (Well, the deadeye for a go for a spark, because of pierce\pspeed) Now even with it gone - it makes no sense to play Scion. Because every class is literally better. Hell, even the slayer got to a good ground.

Also, it feels like those who say that "the point of ascendant is to get to other classes starting point" is completely wrong, to say the least. You WONT save ANY USABLE amout of points. Sure, you'll get something like 2-3 points, but that's all. That point amount is too small to make a difference. To make it work this way, passives gained from ascendancy should be +5 or +10 to make it worth the effort. And still, comparing to others classes you'll be trash tier because others have - Infinite Power Charges, Elemental Conflux, ES regen and -chaos res, easly reachable max block and infinite vaal haste, Chain Reaction, ele damage penetration, infinite fortify, infinite endurance charges and so on.
Try making a build that can COMPETE with those. There will be none. I assure you.

And by the way, to reach maximum potence of your build you'll HAVE to run 4-th lab. Which is quite endgame to say the least. And as a hardcore player, I can definatelly tell that going Scion in 2.3 is a waste of time. Even running lab until ~60's is a waste of time. Where's Assasin can get a viable endless Power Charges, Scion gets stats and a passive point. And in the end of the day, even with max'ed out acendancy, Scion will get outmatched by every other class.

I wish GGG made a totally different (in mechanics way) ascendacy nodes for Ascendant. Because making gimicky builds usually leads to nowhere. I've learned that the hard way.

It's just my opinion. As a "hipster" build maker, I'll be still playing Scion (Because of sic model that fits the theme of the build (Hello Saber), screw the meta) and probably I will be a top trash tier Lacerate-crap-build.

To sum up, I think 2.3 Ascendant will be 2.2 Slayer. Except even crappier.

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VanguardUa wrote:

It's just my opinion. As a "hipster" build maker, I'll be still playing Scion (Because of sic model that fits the theme of the build (Hello Saber), screw the meta) and probably I will be a top trash tier Lacerate-crap-build.

Overall, yes, but in some cases you may still want to use her. For instance, I'm levelling some attack/spell hybrid with max block right now and it's supposed to be using the Guardiator combo. Using a Gladiator would give me 70% extra spell block and Guardian doesn't really offer anything interesting to the build except block. Now, getting 100% spell block isn't hard either way and using Scion will give me easy access to a bit more spell damage on right side that I need to make Crown of Eyes worthwhile and using templar start will save me 7 points, which brings the total up to 10, counting those she gets from passives. In a build that's stretched for points that's pretty big.

Yeah, I admit the build has an unusual set of requirements, which is what makes Scion the best option, but that's probably what she's for in the first place.