Concerns about Scion balance after 2.3

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VanguardUa wrote:

Problem is that Berserker was only useable node in ascendancy for any non-totem\non-trap build as a scion. (Well, the deadeye for a go for a spark, because of pierce\pspeed) Now even with it gone - it makes no sense to play Scion. Because every class is literally better. Hell, even the slayer got to a good ground.

Also, it feels like those who say that "the point of ascendant is to get to other classes starting point" is completely wrong, to say the least. You WONT save ANY USABLE amout of points. Sure, you'll get something like 2-3 points, but that's all. That point amount is too small to make a difference. To make it work this way, passives gained from ascendancy should be +5 or +10 to make it worth the effort. And still, comparing to others classes you'll be trash tier because others have - Infinite Power Charges, Elemental Conflux, ES regen and -chaos res, easly reachable max block and infinite vaal haste, Chain Reaction, ele damage penetration, infinite fortify, infinite endurance charges and so on.
Try making a build that can COMPETE with those. There will be none. I assure you.

And by the way, to reach maximum potence of your build you'll HAVE to run 4-th lab. Which is quite endgame to say the least. And as a hardcore player, I can definatelly tell that going Scion in 2.3 is a waste of time. Even running lab until ~60's is a waste of time. Where's Assasin can get a viable endless Power Charges, Scion gets stats and a passive point. And in the end of the day, even with max'ed out acendancy, Scion will get outmatched by every other class.

I wish GGG made a totally different (in mechanics way) ascendacy nodes for Ascendant. Because making gimicky builds usually leads to nowhere. I've learned that the hard way.

It's just my opinion. As a "hipster" build maker, I'll be still playing Scion (Because of sic model that fits the theme of the build (Hello Saber), screw the meta) and probably I will be a top trash tier Lacerate-crap-build.

To sum up, I think 2.3 Ascendant will be 2.2 Slayer. Except even crappier.

Thats mostly true. In fact you are losing points. Each ascendency node is worth multiple points on tree. The fact that Scion has option to get 2x WEAKER version of other ascendencies and fact that other ascendencies can have 4 major nodes - makes SCION utter garbage for anything else than complete HIPSTER t3-5 maps build.

well.. Ascendant's Berserker and Deadeye were NO BRAINER 7th and 8th link respectively (life leech and pierce)

it was too good to pass and too good to be bothered with anything else. when the dust settles and the doomsayers are gone we will notice that:

- Voltaxic (even 60%) + Berserker/Deadeye is STILL very good. because pretty much nothing changed for this build. the pierce chance is 100% still, the leech is up for 99% of the map (and most bosses as there are really just FEW bosses that are literally solo). the 20% proj speed removal is kinda bad but.. it was an overkill in most cases anyway. the +leech and +pierce and +projectile combo is still there albeit with minor tweaks (minor.. we've been there already 'the sky is falling' meta is getting old pretty quick)

- there are pretty good choices on other ascendancies (not as good as FREE 8link + insane damage perks ofc because that was DUMB but) good enough to consider them.

- Scion still gives great starting point (curse effect, skill duration, life wheel). when people are not blinded with the bright 'OP combo' they will find other uses for this class - most likely including the 'start as another class' perk. i have a build that i will respec this way in 2.3. time will tell if it beats current iteration or not.

what i agree tho is the 'doing normal lab is pointless'. i see why it has to be so - but it is very bad. few days ago i leveled a char from zero to hero and didnt bother with the normal lab till cruel so i can GET something from doing it. 40stat node is ok, the passive node is also cool but it is still underwhelming compared to what one gets in cruel


and yes, people will do ANYTHING to avoid using 'support' gems in their main setup. 'support' gem meaning 'not a damage multiplier'. they will dumb their build down just to avoid using life leech, they gimped their builds with blood magic gem for years instead of spending 3 passives on mana.. people are strange. what is even better is that these 'tricks' are then copied by throngs of copy-pasta warriors.. and we have a meta when everyone runs a 3 link (because other two gems are life leech and blood magic)

It's probably best to provide some examples, like this one:

It's a build that absolutely need +2 range from duelist and uses champion so with duelist start it looks like this:


And without it looks like this:


So, you're exchanging some travel nodes for 12% IAS and 12% life, a bit of armor/eva and some phys with shield, however you lose a jewel slot. I think life wheel is the problem, I'd lose more points for the duelist trip if I didn't have to get the life wheel.

Seriously, that thing should probably be spread around to other nodes, it's too good to pass up and it messes up your point saving plan. Bad design.

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VanguardUa wrote:

Problem is that Berserker was only useable node in ascendancy for any non-totem\non-trap build as a scion. (Well, the deadeye for a go for a spark, because of pierce\pspeed) Now even with it gone - it makes no sense to play Scion. Because every class is literally better. Hell, even the slayer got to a good ground.

Also, it feels like those who say that "the point of ascendant is to get to other classes starting point" is completely wrong, to say the least. You WONT save ANY USABLE amout of points. Sure, you'll get something like 2-3 points, but that's all. That point amount is too small to make a difference. To make it work this way, passives gained from ascendancy should be +5 or +10 to make it worth the effort. And still, comparing to others classes you'll be trash tier because others have - Infinite Power Charges, Elemental Conflux, ES regen and -chaos res, easly reachable max block and infinite vaal haste, Chain Reaction, ele damage penetration, infinite fortify, infinite endurance charges and so on.
Try making a build that can COMPETE with those. There will be none. I assure you.

And by the way, to reach maximum potence of your build you'll HAVE to run 4-th lab. Which is quite endgame to say the least. And as a hardcore player, I can definatelly tell that going Scion in 2.3 is a waste of time. Even running lab until ~60's is a waste of time. Where's Assasin can get a viable endless Power Charges, Scion gets stats and a passive point. And in the end of the day, even with max'ed out acendancy, Scion will get outmatched by every other class.

I wish GGG made a totally different (in mechanics way) ascendacy nodes for Ascendant. Because making gimicky builds usually leads to nowhere. I've learned that the hard way.

It's just my opinion. As a "hipster" build maker, I'll be still playing Scion (Because of sic model that fits the theme of the build (Hello Saber), screw the meta) and probably I will be a top trash tier Lacerate-crap-build.

To sum up, I think 2.3 Ascendant will be 2.2 Slayer. Except even crappier.

Slayer always was good. Now it's even better.

I checked all Ascendant keystones, and i just cant find anything really useful or worth make a combination. Indeed, my prophecy for Prophecy is that we wont see Ascendants.

Just wanted to come here to say this:

I have spent the last 2 days theorycrafting various builds, thinking through some interesting concepts and testing some stuff...

Results:
I would never pick Scion for a single one of them, i can't find any build which can't be done better with another Ascendancy class - the points saved isn't worth it in the and if you even can save any points within your builds by picking Scion.

Roaming the tree is a really cool concept but when you put it into pracitce you will quickly aknowledge that it is never worth it in terms of efficiancy. The time when you are able to utilize it is from lvl 80+ onwards - you have to level as something else to get there. Then you have to respec (which costs a ton of regrets) and after that you will realize that you could do nearly the same thing two times as efficient when taking another class and just start form there...


In short: there is no reason to pick Scion anymore for anything if feel which can't be done with another class more efficiently - you also get nothing usable/build defining unique from beeing Scion which can't be achieved/compensated in some other way.

Makes me wish I choose the witch for my MF spell caster so I could have the raw power from the elementalist tree.

Ascendancy really ruined things. You can't just pick a class anymore that you prefer.

Level a fresh witch to level 85. Guess got no choice now.

its true that ascendants got nerfed. They were a little bit too powerful. Now it seems like on top of getting a nerf, other ascendant classes got some good buffs, which lead to it being unbalanced the other way now. I think ascendents were okay the way they were, and the other ascendants just needed the buff that they now have in 2.3.

The only good thing ascendents are good for now are mjolnir builds due to the extra stats and skill points that come with being a scion ascendent. I just made a orb of storms mjolnir build and it's utterly op because those extra stat points really free up slots on your gear for other things. But that's about it. Other than Mjolnir builds, and maybe spark builds, scion is truly a jack of all trades and master of none. Which is a bit bland, i guess. I think they can still do with a bit more skill points and stat points though.

Bump on the off-chance hope that GGG will do something with this..

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acme_myst wrote:

Bump on the off-chance hope that GGG will do something with this..

I don't think anything will happen about this "balance" change until the end of this league. Typical GGG approach.

#MakeScionPlayableAgain

scion is playable. some just want free ride of OP stuff. i have already one character that works best as scion in 2.3 and maybe (just maybe as im not into fancy builds) ill come up with more

if you needed a 'free leech' from Scion to make a playable build then the problem is more 'you' than 'the scion'