Transgender Bathrooms... Targets getting boycotted. (Your Opinions?)

Sad but true.

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Dan_GGG wrote:

These bills are simply fearmongering - taking advantage of that lack of understanding by inventing a problem that has never existed, making discrimination against trans people legal and even encouraged.

I think there's some oversimplification of issues from both supporting and opposing perspectives.

There are adults who care whether another person of a different gender or gender identity is in the restroom with them. Anyone saying that their feelings and opinions don't matter while someone else's feelings and opinions do matter is only going to produce backlash (as witnessed), resentment and prolong any sense of understanding or compromise.

Compromise is not a dirty word. Majority opinion is NOT a good gauge of whether an issue should be forced, and here's why:

DNA manipulation is just around the corner. What happens to all these minority groups when doctors and scientists can simply start "snipping" and patching DNA?

Unless rights are a permanent thing and protected against majority encroachment for all people, all the time, then technology and the popular whim of the day can mean any group can suddenly become the victim. Technology may mean far more drastic consequences for victims.

From what I have seen and read, it isn't a large number of adults worried about who else is in the restroom with them that is the impetus behind these bills. It is the parents and grandparents who are worried about those who will take advantage of the situation against children - NOT those who identify with another gender or who are in the process of changing, but those who are simply pedophiles.

It shouldn't even be a problem or concern, except that society already has a major stereotype that is causing this problem:

Women are less likely to victimize children than men. (I'm not saying statistics don't back this up, the point is that it is a stereotype based on a large group and applied to individuals without qaulifiaction)

If the public was equally as concerned and vigilant about adult women in bathrooms with children as they were with adult men, then there would be absolutely nothing to worry about.

If all parents accompanied their children into the restroom to watch over them, there would be nothing to worry about.

Society's squeamishness (yuck, there's pee and poo in the restroom) and bias (No worries about female stranger in bathroom with child, while concern about male stranger) are the BULK of the reason for these bills.

In essence, it is the badly behaved cisgender people that these bill makers are concerned about, and causing headaches/heartaches, discrimination and other problems for the non-cisgendered, who are rarely* those harming children.


*can't say never, but I don't ever recall hearing or reading of any such cases.

What's the end solution?

Why not sit both groups down at some respectful meetings and let them talk through it and find something where everyone feels safe and welcome?

Anyone who thinks it can only be one way or the other has very little experience with diversity. That's like saying skill gems must be blue or they must be green.

The whole point of diversity is to appreciate and amalgamate differing perspectives to create something that is better for everyone.

For instance, why is the public so locked into the idea that we need two different bathrooms in the first place? Why can't public bathrooms offer more privacy? (yeah, I know there's costs and illicit activity in the stalls and other stuff to worry about. I am just raising an issue that might be part of the solution)

Now, Because I don't believe in the No win scenario ever) for the win-win scenario:

The groups that are fighting for their right to be treated respectfully when they want to use the restroom they identify with can be working towards this goal while still fighting for improvements that help protect children from abusers.

Imagine a large group of transgendered people marching on Washington D.C. DEMANDING that public restrooms be made safer for children.

Can you imagine how many of the public would suddenly think twice about how they have misconstrued and misunderstood these people?

Can you imagine the politicians NOT scrambling to find REAL solutions that work for everyone, eliminate the discrimination and protect children from would be predators?

Please, please, please people, stop thinking inside the box. Those people who are different aren't your enemies. Face to face honest communication will cause most of these problems to become non problems. How much of the same DNA does Trump have with Bernie compared to a Tortoise? How many of the same medical problems face people who live south of a certain parallel vs those who live north of it? How many people have similar issues raising kids whether they are singled or partnered?

When people find out how similar the majority of their daily and lifelong struggles are, the differences seem minor indeed.

The public personae have forgotten how to be brothers and sisters and too often acts like a world of only children. You don't always get along with or agree with your brothers and sisters while growing up, but that doesn't mean you don't love them. You start to realize you have grown up when the love for your brothers and sisters outweighs and surmounts any disagreements.

Keep in mind, we didn't start out life as mature adults, and we will never all reach that destination at the same time.

The transgendered people are not the enemy. The people wanting to protect their children are not the enemy. The child abusers are the enemy.

The danger is real, and it is not fear mongering. The danger isn't from the vast majority of the people who just want to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with. It is those that will (and already do) exploit every opportunity to harm a child.

The good news (regardless of what our feckless leaders decide on) is that technology will make this a non-issue in three generations or less. Proactive P.E.T scanning will allow the child abusers to be identified and isolated long before they every get the chance to do any damage.

Sorry for the long post, but I don't think either side is the enemy here, while I do think working together would make both sides a little closer and solve the problem.

The first step is understanding each other.

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

Please reread my post. I'm not arguing men and women are literally physically equal.

That can change too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/14/science/synthetic-human-genome.html?_r=0

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Yeah, doesn't really make sense. I guess nothing about this does. It's like social conservatives suddenly realized something obvious: transgender people sometimes need to pee.

I dont think their issue is with actual transgender people. I think it is the fact that teenage boys, with camera phones, can just lie and say "I identify as a female today" and freely go into the girls bathrooms locker rooms and showers. Once some video or picture is on the internet, it never disappears. The idea that we can trust all teenagers to never lie is absurd.

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Khoranth wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Yeah, doesn't really make sense. I guess nothing about this does. It's like social conservatives suddenly realized something obvious: transgender people sometimes need to pee.

I dont think their issue is with actual transgender people. I think it is the fact that teenage boys, with camera phones, can just lie and say "I identify as a female today" and freely go into the girls bathrooms locker rooms and showers. Once some video or picture is on the internet, it never disappears. The idea that we can trust all teenagers to never lie is absurd.

Right, and if they do something fucked up in the bathroom... man, if only there was a law...

This is the biggest non-issue I have ever seen come from the Right. I can tell you exactly what's driving it. They need another punching bag, and they figured since this group is exponentially smaller, no one would possibly care.

For a group that's all about limited government, they sure do love them some laws.

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Khoranth wrote:

Once some video or picture is on the internet, it never disappears. The idea that we can trust all teenagers to never lie is absurd.

There is irony in your use of absurdity.

You are making assumptions and implications that you should have really fully stated out loud. Why do most people make such a big deal about seeing someone without their clothes on? That is absurd. There is no harm being done. If you are ashamed of your body, that is YOUR problem. Not any wrongdoing by the people whom see you. You just need to accept things beyond your control. Become comfortable with yourself.

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SkyCore wrote:

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Khoranth wrote:

Once some video or picture is on the internet, it never disappears. The idea that we can trust all teenagers to never lie is absurd.

There is irony in your use absurdity.

You are making assumptions and implications that you should have really fully stated out loud. Why do most people make such a big deal about seeing someone without their clothes on? That is absurd. There is no harm being done. If you are ashamed of your body, that is YOUR problem. Not any wrongdoing by the people whom see you. You just need to accept things beyond your control. Become comfortable with yourself.

So there is no harm in filming a 13 year old without her consent and putting it on the internet?

This is absurd.

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Khoranth wrote:

So there is no harm in filming a 13 year old without her consent and putting it on the internet?

This is absurd.

Perhaps you could elaborate on exactly WHY you think nudity is such an evil thing?

The reasoning behind barring sexual contact with minors is that they are not fully capable of making life altering decisions ( pregnancy). While sexual contact with prepubescent children can cause serious bodily harm.

In child porn (as in naked pictures), it is to prevent exploitation of minors. Similar to child labor laws.

Neither of these situations fully apply in the context given. Although i will admit that unless nudity is commonplace, it would be hard for the law to seperate the situations in which exploitation occurs or not. Thus we are stuck with the ban on all nudity of minors. If there were better law enforcement tools to detect actual exploitation (and a desire of lawmakers, yeah never gonna happen) perhaps it would no longer be a full ban.

Is there anything morally/ ethically wrong with a 13 year olds body? Absolutely not. Our society is just fucked.

While on the subject of minors. Id like to add that governments have pushed the legal age of adulthood further and further back over the last couple hundred years. In my view, not being legally considered an entity with freewill is a tragedy for those whom mature early. Regardless of the arbitrary age of legal adulthood, the time at which you are first allowed to act will result in mistakes. It is a natural part of growing up. Postponing that time only pushes the mistakes to later in life. But in addition, it has a negative impact on ones psyche when they are fully bound by anothers will well after maturity. I lack the evidence to support this claim, but i imagine that pushing adulthood years after puberty results in a large reduction in personal agency.

Also you wouldn't use a law designed to oppress transgender people to protect against this as transgender teenagers would also be harmed by that hypothetical sneaky teenage boy.