Why are viper, elemental hit and puncture still skills?

I'm talking about using the skill normally, not traps or whatever else.

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Raudram wrote:

I'm talking about using the skill normally, not traps or whatever else.

You mean using it without support gems? Then of course it sucks.

I would like a way to get frenzy charges without killing as well. Power charge on crit, endurance charge on stun, frenzy charge on hit (5% chance or so)?

Frenzy is one of the easiest charges to generate on hit... Why does everyone hate the Frenzy skill gem nowadays?

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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Raudram wrote:

I'm talking about using the skill normally, not traps or whatever else.

You mean using it without support gems? Then of course it sucks.

With support gems, I meant using it normally, not through traps and such.

It's so odd seeing everyone talk about how OP a bleed gem would be for ranged folks, yet it's available as a bow base. Is it really that much of a nightmare to craft a good bow from a bleed bow base. Bare with me, I'm kinda new to the crafting minigame.

How about a Bino's in one hand and a Vegan bleed dagger in the other. Stack on all the usual fun stuff with Double Strike.

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safety2nd wrote:

It's so odd seeing everyone talk about how OP a bleed gem would be for ranged folks, yet it's available as a bow base. Is it really that much of a nightmare to craft a good bow from a bleed bow base. Bare with me, I'm kinda new to the crafting minigame.

Yes, it is. Tora's bleed affix is a prefix (so is the one Vagan's bench can add, though that can't be added to bows), meaning you'd have to give up a one member of the physical damage affix trio to get it (%phys, hybrid phys, and flat phys). This would severely limit the physical damage your weapon could do even if you managed (miraculously) to regal/exalt the two remaining prefix slots with top phys rolls.

Additionally, bleed bows are only sold directly by Tora (you can't use a bench to add the affix to a custom bow), meaning their ilvls can only go so high (ilvl 59 tops, iirc). As a result, you can't get the highest tiers of bows with a bleed affix (so no Harbingers, and pretty much none of the other merc-tier bows besides maybe Thickets), nor can you roll the highest tiers of affixes onto them (at ilvl 59, the best you can do is t3 flat phys and t4 %phys and hybrid)

Between working with cruel-tier bases, having far from top-tier affixes available, and only being able to use two of the three physical damage affixes, the physical damage potential of the weapon would be severely limited. Building around even a well rolled Tora bleed bow would pale in comparison to using a legit endgame bow (even just a Lioneye's Glare) and taking up one of your links with a bleed support gem.

I'm not so sure about ele hit, but puncture is pretty powerful, bleed in general is. Viper strike on the other hand, against high hp bosses its rather insane, I'm pretty sure that viper strike is the only way for for melee crit builds(dagger/sword/claw) to do uber atziri. And then bring in that 8sec duration for poison. It doesn't need to be changed. Period.

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adghar wrote:

Frenzy is one of the easiest charges to generate on hit... Why does everyone hate the Frenzy skill gem nowadays?

Well, I do have one (with multistrike and fortify, I splash it between spamming double strike multistrike improved critical cast on crit blade vortex power charge on crit), but I'd rather have the option to use it as a support gem.