I am sorry to say that I will not be able to continue to play PoE because of arbitrary bans.

"

ip99 wrote:

A friend of mine just got his account permanently banned for violation of the terms of policy. To me my decision to stop playing PoE is not hinged on guilt or innocence in the current issue.

My decision is based on the fact that he was not told what he was accused of doing. GGG says that they do not disclose that information because they do not want people to learn tricks to go around GGG security measures.

What this means is that a small group of people in GGG closes accounts based on charges that are secret using evidence that they alone have a chance to review.

That makes it impossible for me to continue playing the games since at any moment my account that I have used real money to improve and quite some time playing can be closed at any time and I cannot do anything about it.

Therefor I cannot invest any more time or money into the game.

Don't break the rules, don't get banned. The rules are clearly listed in the ToS.

I hate to point out that you are claiming GGG is making arbitrary assumptions to rule against your friends account. To "prove" your statements are true, you use arbitrary assumptions in an attempt to give yourself solid ground to stand on. Baffling....

"

ip99 wrote:

"

cero88 wrote:

Unless you can claim precisely what your friend did, I have to agree with GGG staff.

I have known him for 20+ years. If we were to do botting or RMT we would be completely open about it to each other.

He has not done any actions known to us to violate the terms of service.

But actually that is besides my point. My point is this.

If the police came to your door and said that you must pay 500 euro in fines. They would not tell you what you hade done just that they had evidence to support the fine, but that evidence was secret. It would be wrong.

Even if you did massive speeding in your car the other day it would still be wrong and would not stand in any modern democratic nation.

The way the GGG are conducting them self is wrong.

This is not analogous in any way. Constitutional rights granted to a population via their governments are very different from the rights of a private company. In this case, GGG owns your friends accounts, the game, and the servers that the account accesses, and have set terms by which they can be used by the user. Its 100% their property and they can chose to do with it what they wish. You agreed to this, and your friend agreed to this.

If your reasons for quitting are what you claim, than you would seriously have a hard time using any service as they all have similar rights to "your" data. Someone in this thread mentioned steam. By your own arguments, you should also not be using Steam for the same fear of "arbitrary" account loss.

*Arbitrary is in quotes because the OP's definition does not seem to be the same as the Websters definition.

"

ntall1 wrote:

"

ip99 wrote:

A friend of mine just got his account permanently banned for violation of the terms of policy. To me my decision to stop playing PoE is not hinged on guilt or innocence in the current issue.

My decision is based on the fact that he was not told what he was accused of doing. GGG says that they do not disclose that information because they do not want people to learn tricks to go around GGG security measures.

What this means is that a small group of people in GGG closes accounts based on charges that are secret using evidence that they alone have a chance to review.

That makes it impossible for me to continue playing the games since at any moment my account that I have used real money to improve and quite some time playing can be closed at any time and I cannot do anything about it.

Therefor I cannot invest any more time or money into the game.

Don't break the rules, don't get banned. The rules are clearly listed in the ToS.

I hate to point out that you are claiming GGG is making arbitrary assumptions to rule against your friends account. To "prove" your statements are true, you use arbitrary assumptions in an attempt to give yourself solid ground to stand on. Baffling....

My point, which I have stated several times is the following. It is wrong to ban someone without telling them what they have done. That is what I mean with arbitrary.

I am amazed that people can be so completely sure that GGG does not make any mistakes when it comes to bans. Every single company on earth makes mistakes.

But GGG does not?

"

ntall1 wrote:

"

ip99 wrote:

"

cero88 wrote:

Unless you can claim precisely what your friend did, I have to agree with GGG staff.

I have known him for 20+ years. If we were to do botting or RMT we would be completely open about it to each other.

He has not done any actions known to us to violate the terms of service.

But actually that is besides my point. My point is this.

If the police came to your door and said that you must pay 500 euro in fines. They would not tell you what you hade done just that they had evidence to support the fine, but that evidence was secret. It would be wrong.

Even if you did massive speeding in your car the other day it would still be wrong and would not stand in any modern democratic nation.

The way the GGG are conducting them self is wrong.

This is not analogous in any way. Constitutional rights granted to a population via their governments are very different from the rights of a private company. In this case, GGG owns your friends accounts, the game, and the servers that the account accesses, and have set terms by which they can be used by the user. Its 100% their property and they can chose to do with it what they wish. You agreed to this, and your friend agreed to this.

If your reasons for quitting are what you claim, than you would seriously have a hard time using any service as they all have similar rights to "your" data. Someone in this thread mentioned steam. By your own arguments, you should also not be using Steam for the same fear of "arbitrary" account loss.

*Arbitrary is in quotes because the OP's definition does not seem to be the same as the Websters definition.

You are making an interesting point.

I do believe that in the future people will not stand for giving up 100% of their rights to game companies like it is done today.

Name one other industry in which the company can take away a product from you at any time without any due process and not even telling you why.

This will change.

"

ip99 wrote:

I do believe that in the future people will not stand for giving up 100% of their rights to game companies like it is done today.

Name one other industry in which the company can take away a product from you at any time without any due process and not even telling you why.

This will change.

No it won't. All gaming companies need to do is put in the ToS like GGG is that they don't have to give a reason and then they are safe. As far as I recall, most games have wording pointing out that you are using their property, not your own. Your account is never yours, it is on loan. A vast majority of players have been and will continue to be fine with this because they trust the companies to not be dicks considering true arbitrary bans would quickly lose them business, it doesn't help them to ban at random either. Why prevent somebody who was spending money from spending more money because they continued to like the product?

This is why neither GGG nor any other self respecting company would ever truly arbitrarily ban people. It would only be a tactic of a company that purposely wants to burn themselves to the ground. Which is why since the two of you are so insistent that your friend did nothing wrong, it would have had to been a key logger-based issue that your friends account was hacked unbeknownst to them or you. However, if that appeared to be the issue, GGG probably would have let your friend have it back after review, unless it was so bad of actions the hacker conducted that they had to flat out refuse to unban it.

I think GGG will transfer account purchases to a clean account if you prove ownership but I may be wrong on that. I might be thinking of another game. If your friend cared to try.

Unfortunately, my bias is against the both of you because you have to point out that you spent money on the game. This instantly rings an alarm to me and others that you are self-entitled and how I can understand that a macro of the questionable sort may be fine in your friend's and your eyes or your friend is flat out lying and at least dabbled in the naughty stuff. I may be totally off base but you are always going to get in an argument with most of the other people on here because in most cases, GGG had good reason to ban and verified their reasons in review of the ban. So in the opposition's eyes, your argument isn't an arbitrary ban that they won't tell my friend why, it's "I was using ____ and don't think it's a big deal, how dare GGG ban without discussing apples and oranges on this matter!" And since you and/or your friend don't see it as cheating, won't admit to cheating as being the cause of the ban.