Hierophant's mini-Mind over Matter mechanics

Does the mini-MoM from Hierophant stack with legacy Cloak of Defiance?



Both the item and the chest have the same line: 10% damage taken etc

it is incredibly difficult to test ingame - despite some effort i simply cannot find a mob that has reliably consistent damage per hit

can GGG clarify? do i have a 50% damage taken as mana or 40% and that Ascendancy point is wasted on me (except that +100 flat mana ofc)

No reason it shouldn't stack, the keystone just provides an amount of a certain stat. The same way Acro gives you 30% dodge which stacks with other dodge bonuses but having an item equipped that has Acro won't double it.

Had a thought about Cloak recently. It might be popular again if it had 10% damage taken as mana instead of MoM. Absorbing 30% is powerful but requires a significant amount of investment, 10% shouldn't be hard to manage and it's still a very nice defensive bonus.

issue is that there is that weird thing with '+something' and 'something'

iirc you cannot get benefits from +dodge if you do not have dodge chance already (or maybe it is some other stat - do not remember that)

both legacy Cloak and the Hierophant's keystone say '10% something' not '+10% something'. it leads me to believe that it is non-stackable

The case you mention - Acrobatics was different. Both item and keystone granted you 'Acrobatics'. Not 30% dodge. This is a huge difference - because you cannot have 2 Acrobatics one is discarded. Same case here - two instances of the same 'base' modifier (without the '+')

id really like to somehow test it but lack of combat log/COMPLETE character stats (Grim Dawn has it done in a much more verbose way) makes it hopeless

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sidtherat wrote:

iirc you cannot get benefits from +dodge if you do not have dodge chance already (or maybe it is some other stat - do not remember that)

Yeah, that's block.

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sidtherat wrote:

both legacy Cloak and the Hierophant's keystone say '10% something' not '+10% something'. it leads me to believe that it is non-stackable

It's very similar to '% of damage taken gained as mana' and that stacks just fine, nothing about the stat screams it may be non-stackable and MoM is worded the same as the stat, not much in common with block situation there.

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sidtherat wrote:

The case you mention - Acrobatics was different. Both item and keystone granted you 'Acrobatics'. Not 30% dodge. This is a huge difference - because you cannot have 2 Acrobatics one is discarded. Same case here - two instances of the same 'base' modifier (without the '+')

Dunno, man, CoD is pretty much the same as Hyrri's Ire, Acro + 10% dodge and MoM + 10% damage taken as mana.

old Hyrri's gave you 'acrobatics' :) i know about the new one and there are just too many 'almost-certain' things

because i know this stuff and understand how these stack or not. but.. something still can surprise me as the ggg 'strict wording' is known to have minor holes like the block one and i use caution when building characters around similar stuff.

building 50% MoM and 40% MoM is totally different build and i just would like to know if it even makes sense (issue are jewel slots for threshold jewel) to try. btw Cloak is great and MoM when used right is just bonkers. but this means 1 aura and maybe a herald and who will drop Ze Big Dips for a defense.. facetanking enraged argus as a caster feelsGood

question still stands - anyone knows For Sure if this legacy mod adds or overwrites the Hierophants keystone?

Can you test it in pvp? It should be pretty easy to get more consistency from a pvp character, when they can tell you their damage range beforehand.

Also consider use Lori's lantern for more consistent damage taken.

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sidtherat wrote:

question still stands - anyone knows For Sure if this legacy mod adds or overwrites the Hierophants keystone?

Can't help you then, I'd be willing to put good money on it working, but nobody would take that bet if it was 100% certain, right.

Actually, it should be very easy to test if you got both a legacy CoD and a hierophant. Just record anything hitting you and go frame by frame until you see how much it took from your life and mana. You don't need to know how much damage the monster does, just check if both amounts were the same and it shouldn't be hard to see, one of them would be 50% higher if it was 60/40 and you surely aren't regenerating that much in 1/60th of a second.

Good thinking Raics!

No need to record it, just make sure you have no life regen, and use Shavronne's Revelation in the Right ring slot. (If you have one, that is!)

If you're using both - like OP is asking about - but you only have about 200 mana unreserved, will the damage still hit your life pool after bringing you mana to zero?

Of course it will. Damage applies to mana "before life"(by def) so if you don't have enough mana to take all that damage then the rest is going to life anyway.