Hierophant's mini-Mind over Matter mechanics

Just a note, if you are attempting a CoD + Hierophant build.

If you take 50% of damage as mana, that means you need as much mana as you have life and a loooot of mana regen. Clarity ain't gonna cut it. You're going to want Pledge, Atziri's Foible, everything. It is REALLY HARD to get 4k mana.

Oh, and if that's the route you're going... throw on an Aylardex!

it is not how MoM is build :) at least not the way i use

key to MoM is this:

you need to have the same % of MoM and Mana gained when damaged so the MoM does not deplete your mana. no need to worry about regen etc stuff for a small price of using a warcry every 10-13seconds

the cost - and a hefty one - is getting correct jewel slots. for 4 jewels it is doable for 5 it is a costly and weird pathing with huge alternative cost

I think i'll drop this and go for 5-link helmet/boots/gloves as i already have setups there that will benefit directly from their bonuses

but thanks guys for help - ill try the listed method and find out if this works or not

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sidtherat wrote:

it is not how MoM is build :) at least not the way i use

key to MoM is this:

you need to have the same % of MoM and Mana gained when damaged so the MoM does not deplete your mana. no need to worry about regen etc stuff for a small price of using a warcry every 10-13seconds

the cost - and a hefty one - is getting correct jewel slots. for 4 jewels it is doable for 5 it is a costly and weird pathing with huge alternative cost

I think i'll drop this and go for 5-link helmet/boots/gloves as i already have setups there that will benefit directly from their bonuses

but thanks guys for help - ill try the listed method and find out if this works or not

Do yo entirely replace Clarity with Rallying cry?
This gem seems quite good with MoM, even if you only get 1-2 copies of it.

Do you have a build guide? :)

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silumit wrote:

Of course it will. Damage applies to mana "before life"(by def) so if you don't have enough mana to take all that damage then the rest is going to life anyway.

With big hits being the main reason you need defense, you'd need about 800 unreserved mana to fully benefit from 10% of damage taken from mana 1st if the incoming hit was 8000.
Maybe 4000 is a more realistic hit. Not reserving 400 mana so that you can benefit from only 10% of the damage going to mana just seems wrong.

Maybe someone else can confirm or dispute this mechanic?

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slatra wrote:

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silumit wrote:

Of course it will. Damage applies to mana "before life"(by def) so if you don't have enough mana to take all that damage then the rest is going to life anyway.

With big hits being the main reason you need defense, you'd need about 800 unreserved mana to fully benefit from 10% of damage taken from mana 1st if the incoming hit was 8000.
Maybe 4000 is a more realistic hit. Not reserving 400 mana so that you can benefit from only 10% of the damage going to mana just seems wrong.

Maybe someone else can confirm or dispute this mechanic?

That's how it works, it requires an investment. If it didn't then everyone would get 30% mitigation for free by using a blood magic support and reserving all your mana.

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sidtherat wrote:

it is not how MoM is build :) at least not the way i use

key to MoM is this:

you need to have the same % of MoM and Mana gained when damaged so the MoM does not deplete your mana. no need to worry about regen etc stuff for a small price of using a warcry every 10-13seconds

the cost - and a hefty one - is getting correct jewel slots. for 4 jewels it is doable for 5 it is a costly and weird pathing with huge alternative cost

I think i'll drop this and go for 5-link helmet/boots/gloves as i already have setups there that will benefit directly from their bonuses

but thanks guys for help - ill try the listed method and find out if this works or not

Though Spirited Response doesn't work with EB, so it's only for a very niche MoM build that ONLY uses Mana. (Also, the Damage Taken Gained as Mana happens BEFORE the Damage is dealt to your Mana, so it's only good for repetitive hits, not for big/single hits.)

Though it is an interesting Jewel/mechanic to try to make use of.

I consider EB with MoM a waste of a perfectly good node. It really destroys everything good MoM has to offer for what - ability to run another aura? ability to solve mana 'problems' without 'wasting nodes' on mana related passives?


My hierophant has 4.5k life, 2.8k ES and 3k Mana with ~1k unreserved. it takes some extreme sh.. to kill it. And currently i have only 2 Threshold jewels (pathing is crazy weird for 4 and i do not have 40 spare regrets to sort it out). With 4 it simply REMOVES 40% incoming damage. I there is hardly anything stronger than that.

I like hybrid builds. Despite what 'general populace' thinks I consider them very, very strong - when done and played right. It has a cost ofc - you sacrifice an aura or two. It is a significant cost but on the other hand what else in this game can cut received damage by 20% 30% or 40% (depending on how much % damage gained as mana you have). Passives and affixes saved from defence can be put into offense to balance it out.


note: i do not like doing build guides. most readers do not even open a guide that does not say 'uber atziri 3mil dps'. it might sound salty but i think that original ideas are not really in high demand.

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sidtherat wrote:

I like hybrid builds. Despite what 'general populace' thinks I consider them very, very strong - when done and played right. It has a cost ofc - you sacrifice an aura or two. It is a significant cost but on the other hand what else in this game can cut received damage by 20% 30% or 40% (depending on how much % damage gained as mana you have). Passives and affixes saved from defence can be put into offense to balance it out.

Enfeeble, that outperforms MoM on anything but curse immune mobs and map bosses if you don't have at least 30% increased curse effect.

In general hybrid builds are weak because they are inefficient both in passive increases and in healing methods, you almost never get something that help both sides. Specialization will always outperform balance in this game.

Given, they are weak compared to specialized full life, CI or Shavs builds, by themselves are more than enough to complete all the game content.

hybrid has two things going for it

a) highest possible buffer. vs the true one-hits (like crit, shocked ground, extra damage as everything etc stuff) the buffer is all that matters. shrugging 100s of small hits can be done with anything. the one true devastating strike is a binary thing: buffer was or wasnt large enough.

b) most people havent really explored these areas because the 'meta/streamers/copypasta' builds are rather simple and because this game does not really reward going for 'more than good enough'. despite what some say at some point people will always pick more damage over defences - because the damage makes the sense of progression. taking bigger hits is 'cool story bro, can we move on?'. and that means that there is A LOT more to the hybrids than 'general populace' sees

people are now 'discovering' life/es/combos (due to Trickster) however it was PERFECTLY possible to make a shadow pre 2.1 that had over 9k life+es (on a relatively low budget of 2-3ex) and was simply put - tankier than tankiest marauders. but.. hybrid sucks, i know i know

note:
i can cast enfeeble manually :) when and if i need it. curses for general map clear are mostly an overkill anyway

So? Yes Hybrid has a higher EHP cap, but point by point is less efficient. A decent player with a decent build can survive normal fights and evade the brutal one hits, and the damage difference allows fights to be faster, improving your farming speed and lowering your risks.

As you say, the game does not really reward going for 'more than good enough', there is no real reason go to through all the loops a real hybrid build needs, for example most of your MoM mitigation will be lost because it will only work after your ES is depleted (or you get hit by chaos damage). Investing in ES passives will indirectly devalue all the investment you already did to get MoM working.

And curses for general map clear are an overkill but the investment on MoM is not?