SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Regulator wrote:

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LanPirot wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Plenty of people are farming the lab in HC without dying

So, you are part of the silent majority of HC-uber Lab farmers, ehh?

Naaaahhh, all 10 people defending lab and how its awesome (though always conviniently neglecting to say that its for the lootz only) in this thread are scrubcore players to the very bottom of their heart. Not that it changes anything but it lets you see why they do so fanatically defend it. And taking those facts into account i cant help but wonder, how adding alternatives or reallocating ascendancies would make them and their fun farming sessions less enjoyable/fun or rewarding. You see they spit shit about this and that but deep down they oppose the cause out of pure spite, obviously they enjoy when others dont have fun with something they do.....

And then you have more objective softcore (and hardcore) players understanding that alternatives aint gonna hurt nobody, they will still after all do their favourite lab content, not different from what they do at the moment.

"but but, we dont want water downed content, GGG cant please anybody" proud white knights will rush to reply, still not understanding that pleasing another group while in the process you dont affect the other's side gameplay will keep both groups pleased, the first cause nothing changes for them and the second cause now they feel happy that they are not forced to do something they are not here for in the first place, playing an ARPG that is. And water downed content is content with lower quality, content that the changes made to it would change the content itself, something that definately doesnt apply here since both the quality of the content and its actual purpose (that is farming for loot and/or having fun, if you can have fun with 90' arcade games in 2017) would remain
un-fucking-touched.

GGG obviously likes to stack rewards in this specific content, and on top of that on their GRAND SOLUTION to the ARPG genre they excluded labyrinth, continuing to force people to re-run it 4x plus doing the trials again and again. In a way they say, we fixed the ARPG problem but jokes on you suckers cause lab aint an ARPG so this solution doesnt apply to it.

Fine, you want AC points in another way. You gotta hit level 100 to get them or you gotta do uber hasted shaper that spawns another clone and adds in another spot. I mean it cant hurt to add these options right? Who cares if its just for 5 people that don't shut the hell up on the forums and have spent hours and hours replying to threads here.

So.

Went through the über lab, bit by bit. Careful. Took me half an hour.

Then, I reach the third trial of ascendancy. And what happens? Massive lag spike. By the time it's over, I'm dead, lose 15% XP (which is not exactly trivial on a character at the level to do über lab), lose the last half hour of fucking gameplay, lose my offering.

This is the kind of thing that makes people not want to play your game.

I could deal with just about everything else in the labyrinth - the traps, the stupid difficulty spike at Izaro that ensures that a build who can facetank up to tier 11 maps can get one-shot, the lack of explanation of what's going on... But fucking lag? With no mulligans?

Guys. C'mon. This is fucked.

The lab should be a side area that has nothing to do with getting your ascendancy points.

Keep it in the game and let the farmers have their fun.

As for me, the lab has been nothing but a disappointment from the start.

If I wanted to play Frogger I would have bought the Frogger game.

I'm done supporting a game financially that requires players to run an area to progress.

Everywhere else in the game I have a choice. Regarding the lab, I do not. It's either run it or you don't get your points.

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Bowman8763 wrote:

The lab should be a side area that has nothing to do with getting your ascendancy points.

Keep it in the game and let the farmers have their fun.

As for me, the lab has been nothing but a disappointment from the start.

If I wanted to play Frogger I would have bought the Frogger game.

I'm done supporting a game financially that requires players to run an area to progress.

Everywhere else in the game I have a choice. Regarding the lab, I do not. It's either run it or you don't get your points.

priceless


factually false, everywhere else, aka the main story progression requires you to do specific things and specific areas as well to progress. What about bandit rewards, what about side skill point quest.



Its like the majority of the people that hate the lab dont think before they speak.

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ZeroAnthropo wrote:

informative post. thank you

yet another alt account? really?

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Fruz wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

So to say that the Lab is indicative of GGG's continuing distance from balancing for HC is not a far stretch, but I think it's circumstantial. It's not that GGG is saying "fuck you" to HC players; they just don't care about balancing for HC anymore. (They used to.) I suspect that the sub-team in charge of creating the Labyrinth didn't even have hardcore gameplay on their radar while designing the thing, which is an epic oversight (and evidence perhaps of insufficient supervision), but again--the damage is done.

Very, very wrong.

Plenty of people are farming the lab in HC without dying, I did farm uber quite a bunch of times without dying either (30+ I think ).
If anything, the lab is more HC than the average game content.

If you are going to say "Very, very wrong," it helps to actually support that statement.

1) The existence of people farming lab in HC says nothing about the Labyrinth sub-team's perspective or design intentions. It merely shows that it is possible.

2) Nor does saying that the lab is more HC than the "average game content" (I assume you mean traditional PoE gameplay there) contradict what I said in any way.

I happen to agree that it is more similar to HC League content than to SC League content. I also think that it is poorly balanced for a HC League. My best guess at this point is that you do not understand how I (or anyone) could hold those two opinions simultaneously. Do correct me if I am wrong. Otherwise think about that juxtaposition, and I think you will understand my point more easily.

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Regulator wrote:

Naaaahhh, all 10 people defending lab and how its awesome (though always conviniently neglecting to say that its for the lootz only) in this thread are scrubcore players to the very bottom of their heart. Not that it changes anything but it lets you see why they do so fanatically defend it. And taking those facts into account i cant help but wonder, how adding alternatives or reallocating ascendancies would make them and their fun farming sessions less enjoyable/fun or rewarding. You see they spit shit about this and that but deep down they oppose the cause out of pure spite, obviously they enjoy when others dont have fun with something they do.....

I disagree with this bit. Although there are a few unfortunate rejects in this thread for whom Schadenfreude is real, it would be incorrect to suggest that that is their only reason for opposing the introduction of alternative Ascendancy methods.

Dedicated Lab runners have a vested interest in the status quo, because

A) they can profit off of running others through the lab, and
B) an alternative might include an alternative source of profit/loot as well, and they currently enjoy a wealth advantage due to the ability simultaneously to have fun and enjoy tremendous loot-based rewards. So there is an implicit fear that that advantage may be lost.
C) Furthermore, regarding making the Lab more game-like and less work-like, or regarding the introduction of AP acquisition alternatives, they do not see any immediate benefit to themselves, and therefore would prefer that GGG spends energy thinking about other things--things which, presumably, would benefit them directly.

C is the only reason I can sympathize with, though I would maintain that it is simplistic reasoning, because it fails to account for indirect benefits that come from fixing a "controversial" (to put it kindly) area of the game.

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sidtherat wrote:

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ZeroAnthropo wrote:

informative post. thank you

yet another alt account? really?

Yet another snide remark which adds nothing to the thread?

I thought you objected to people being rude, sidtherat. You wrote a nice long post scolding people for rudeness just a few pages ago.

Please explain how your behavior contradicts your stated values. Alternatively, contribute to the thread instead of shitting in it. A third option is to leave. I don't care which you choose, but please choose ONE of the above.

The glaring alt-account trolling is really hurting your cause. Let's be honest, the cause is already dead and buried, not in a small part due to obnoxious and militant approach you choose. You failed to get support even from fence-sitting people, who might conditionally agree on some changes.

No amount of alt-account spamming and imaginary list compilations, will actually change the real in-game statistics that GGG is basing their decisions on. This thread might look long and impressive, but it is mostly filed with radical lab-haters talking to their alt-accounts and a few members of the Loyalist Guard defending the royal palace from the feeble revolutionary attempts. ;)

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Regulator wrote:

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LanPirot wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Plenty of people are farming the lab in HC without dying

So, you are part of the silent majority of HC-uber Lab farmers, ehh?

Naaaahhh, all 10 people defending lab and how its awesome (though always conviniently neglecting to say that its for the lootz only) in this thread are scrubcore players to the very bottom of their heart. Not that it changes anything but it lets you see why they do so fanatically defend it.

• I never cared about the loot in the laby, not even once. Never charged for a carry either. Not everyone who likes it cares about the loot or the potential profit. As hard as it may be for you to believe, some people just plain enjoy the content.
• Funny you're calling Fruz scrubcore, his highest level HC char is ascended. Is yours? Hmmm...
• Because of the comments like you've made here, it's just even more satisfying that you're not getting your way.

Can't respond to any of your other statements, I couldn't bother to read through yet another one of your wall-of-text responses.

Keep up the "good" fight though, it's going so well!