SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

im personally very very disapointed that the lab remains mandatory to do

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Xanin wrote:

im personally very very disapointed that the lab remains mandatory to do

Wow, some people are spoiled.

"apart from the fact that we don't really want to drop a labyrinth"

Hehe, this just keeps getting better and better. The fail crusade takes another devastating loss. 4 labs, 2 points each. on a plus note for the whiners though , the easiest iteration will be a little shorter :D.

Free the ascendancy points, or the game will fail...hehehe.

Damn, game haven't failed yet. Somethin gotta be wrong.
I heard Lab will kill PoE, tho. durr durr. D:

On a serious note, GGG should really take this issue more seriously. I mean, there are tons of people who don't like Lab, for one reason or another. It wouldn't hurt at all to give more options.

Not to mention this thread doesn't look very good with 400+ pages of shit on it, lol.

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Perq wrote:

Damn, game haven't failed yet. Somethin gotta be wrong.
I heard Lab will kill PoE, tho. durr durr. D:

On a serious note, GGG should really take this issue more seriously. I mean, there are tons of people who don't like Lab, for one reason or another. It wouldn't hurt at all to give more options.

Not to mention this thread doesn't look very good with 400+ pages of shit on it, lol.

It does hurt to give more options, do you not remember the podcast that GGG said they were NOT ok watering down content in order to make it appeal to a larger set of players, until everyone was just "ok" with it.


No matter what, there will be a best option, if that best option is not outside the lab, then people here that have complained will continue to complain until its changed even more.



But you know what, there is more options, they have the option to quit the game if it so pisses them off that much, they have the option to skip the lab, lets be honest GGG hasn't "balanced" around AC classes at all, the have the option to suck it up and run normal, cruel and merciless ones in a total of 1 hour, including the trials if necessary, yet its far better use of their time to complain and cry over and over and over and over and over and over again.


Its one of the only aspects of the game that is true to the nature of the game that was originally designed (hardcore by nature). Instead we can't have it because it doesn't fit peoples ideas that avoiding traps should be a thing, people that complain about traps here should be far more concerned with the elemental traps called "bearers" or the melee traps called "volitile blood", instead they rather complain about something that takes a fraction of any characters playtime because "they don't want to do it"


Its 400 pages and I can assure you that 90% of the post are from the same dozen people. Its just a massive circle jerk from both sides with "lab is bad" or "lab is fine", with almost nothing of merit in-between. That being said people that put well thought out and in depth feedback is among the shitpost, they get buried quickly amongts people that just shitpost throughout this thread.

Why though? what issues is the lab causing the game? (December 2016 being the highest average players ever recorded for steam) The game is more popular now than it's been in a long time. There is no evidence that the lab is effecting player retention in any significant way.

There is nothing to fix here. It's just a few people, as the numbers clearly show. There is no compelling reason for GGG to spend the money to change what works for the vast majority of people.

Lab is too punishing for Hardcore. I don't see it as a problem for Softcore, but for hardcore it's unbearable. The feeling is crushing when you spend 60hrs on a character and then have to risk losing it in a few seconds some frogger type challenge. I lost 2 chars to the lab and it was very demoralizing and made me quit the game. This is an ARPG where you should be able to farm/gear up to overcome certain obstacles. It takes away from the game when you have to risk your lvl 60 char to some spinning offscreen blades in normal difficulty. I love the game, but i only want to play HC and lab is not balanced for Hardcore. Every once in a while i check back in hoping to see if there has been some rework on lab for HC but that doesn't seem to be the direction the creators want to go. Sucks.

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lijoe408 wrote:

This is an ARPG where you should be able to farm/gear up to overcome certain obstacles.

Unrelated to the lab, I find this kinda funny. By definition, people play hardcore because it's more exciting and then they do everything in their power to never face any kind of risk if they don't really have to.

Hardcore players will often tell you that they can't shake the feeling that devs are lately moving away from hardcore, they made some questionable decisions you can really feel in HC server population. Some say PoE became more like other online games, and other online games don't often have a hardcore mode, some took the console release as a definite prof of it.

Anyhoo, the way I see it, the hardcore argument will be unlikely to sway anyone in the office.

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raics wrote:

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lijoe408 wrote:

This is an ARPG where you should be able to farm/gear up to overcome certain obstacles.

Unrelated to the lab, I find this kinda funny. By definition, people play hardcore because it's more exciting and then they do everything in their power to never face any kind of risk if they don't really have to.

Hardcore players will often tell you that they can't shake the feeling that devs are lately moving away from hardcore, they made some questionable decisions you can really feel in HC server population. Some say PoE became more like other online games, and other online games don't often have a hardcore mode, some took the console release as a definite prof of it.

Anyhoo, the way I see it, the hardcore argument will be unlikely to sway anyone in the office.

If it doesn't sway a hardcore player that has played in many leagues, it for sure won't sway Chris's ideals. If anything we need more content that is clearly designed to be done in a hardcore fashion, not less.


Its not punishing unless you act like a retard and panic, based on his level of characters, there is no way he has even done the uber lab yet.

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goetzjam wrote:

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raics wrote:

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lijoe408 wrote:

This is an ARPG where you should be able to farm/gear up to overcome certain obstacles.

Unrelated to the lab, I find this kinda funny. By definition, people play hardcore because it's more exciting and then they do everything in their power to never face any kind of risk if they don't really have to.

Hardcore players will often tell you that they can't shake the feeling that devs are lately moving away from hardcore, they made some questionable decisions you can really feel in HC server population. Some say PoE became more like other online games, and other online games don't often have a hardcore mode, some took the console release as a definite prof of it.

Anyhoo, the way I see it, the hardcore argument will be unlikely to sway anyone in the office.

If it doesn't sway a hardcore player that has played in many leagues, it for sure won't sway Chris's ideals. If anything we need more content that is clearly designed to be done in a hardcore fashion, not less.


Its not punishing unless you act like a retard and panic, based on his level of characters, there is no way he has even done the uber lab yet.

I think you are missing that poster's point, which is that the game is increasingly balanced for a softcore experience. That is to say, unavoidable deaths, deaths from which you cannot learn, and/or deaths which are avoidable but only after having died to them enough times to learn--an iterative gameplay experience unsuited to a hardcore mode--are more common than they ever were before. I definitely agree with this assertion.

So to say that the Lab is indicative of GGG's continuing distance from balancing for HC is not a far stretch, but I think it's circumstantial. It's not that GGG is saying "fuck you" to HC players; they just don't care about balancing for HC anymore. (They used to.) I suspect that the sub-team in charge of creating the Labyrinth didn't even have hardcore gameplay on their radar while designing the thing, which is an epic oversight (and evidence perhaps of insufficient supervision), but again--the damage is done.

The Labyrinth can still be made much more fun for softcore than it is now, I think, but I cannot imagine fixing it to be less offensive for HC League players without gutting it completely. Perhaps someone with a better imagination than mine can.

Good hardcore play is difficult but fair. That will never change. PoE is no longer a good game for fans of hardcore, though I think that statement would be true even without the Lab's existence. It sucks, but there it is.

And for that reason alone, I can only agree with raic's assertion that any arguments referencing balance for hardcore will not likely influence anyone at GGG with regards to the Labyrinth.