SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Fruz wrote:

And so we are discussing semantics now.


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/should

"

Used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions
[...]
Used to indicate what is probable

Just the two definitions of this website ( xofrod dictionnary ) that fit the context.

In either of those cases, we have here no idea about its correctness or actually probability ( even though the events seem to show that it isn't probable ), and they have definitely no obligation or duty.


But anyway, you can justify anything by saying that everything we ever say are opinions, I'm waiting for this one ...

My view is that it was obviously an opinion. There is no reason for me to be concerned about your opinion of labyrinth or about Justin Beiber's singing career and vice versa. It is obvious to almost everyone that it is a GGG decision not something that is going to be settled here on the forums. Regards,

We are all giving feedback and suggestions based on our opinion.

It is not our decision to make if the game changes to what each individual thinks is the best.
We can just hope that our arguments and suggestions somehow reach GGG so they maybe have an impact on them.

Lab Haters try to argument in the most logical way to convince them for what they think is for the better, just as Lab Lovers are.

The difference is, Lab Haters try to suggest other ways, alternatives, solutions, Lab Lovers are down to one argument "don´t let them water down the content" , even if the solution would be to keep the Lab as it is right now and provide a different, equally hard/easy way to get Ascendancy Points, Lab Lovers don´t want to move a single bit in Lab Haters direction.

I´m curious if more people would play / come back to the game if a different method to obtain AC-points is integrated or if nothing happens.
I highly doubt that more people would leave if an alternative way would exist.
I highly doubt that there would be close to 350 pages in a thread with 640 people screaming " I hate that people now have a choice on how to get AC-Points "

All that somewhat questions the intention of Lab Lovers for me, it seems that the intention of them is a bit more self-centered ( profit ? ), then what is better for more people.

But that is just.... my opinion.

"

Fruz wrote:

And so we are discussing semantics now.


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/should

"

Used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions
[...]
Used to indicate what is probable

Just the two definitions of this website ( xofrod dictionnary ) that fit the context.

In either of those cases, we have here no idea about its correctness or actually probability ( even though the events seem to show that it isn't probable ), and they have definitely no obligation or duty.


But anyway, you can justify anything by saying that everything we ever say are opinions, I'm waiting for this one ...

Every opinion we ever say is an opinion, yes. Um... duh?

This is one of the more retarded topics we could be arguing about. If you are unable to acknowledge the difference between a fact and an opinion, all coherent discussion will be impossible.

Your statement, "That for sure is one thing that you have no idea about" makes no sense in response to ANY opinion. It is prima facie nonsense.

Here, I'll demonstrate for you:

George: GGG should tweak melee so that it is more competitive with ranged builds.
Frank: That for sure is one thing that you have no idea about.
George: ...

George: Purple is the best color. GGG should put more purple in this game.
Frank: That for sure is one thing that you have no idea about.
George: ...

George: Baggy jeans look terrible. You should stop wearing them.
Frank: That for sure is one thing that you have no idea about.
George: ...

George: Fixing the Labyrinth is something GGG should give top priority to.
Frank: That for sure is one thing that you have no idea about.
George: ...

George: Oh, FFS, you should learn the difference between a fact and an opinion.
Frank: That for sure is one thing that you have no idea about.
George: ...

See? You can plug in anything you want after "should" (in the first sense of the word, べき and not はず--if that helps you understand--which is quite obviously the sense in which it was used) and it still remains an opinion. Responding to it by saying "You can't know that" will always be a ridiculous rebuttal.

Well "should" implies they are obligated.

They aren't however. I know a lot of foreigners have issues with this use of the word, because in other languages "should" is a suggestion not an obligation.

"

The difference is, Lab Haters try to suggest other ways, alternatives, solutions, Lab Lovers are down to one argument "don´t let them water down the content" , even if the solution would be to keep the Lab as it is right now and provide a different, equally hard/easy way to get Ascendancy Points, Lab Lovers don´t want to move a single bit in Lab Haters direction.

You forget one thing here. Investment.

I prefer if they put work into a working 64bit client instead of providing alternatives for the lab. I prefer if they would come up with a good physics engine instead of providing alternatives for the lab. I prefer it if they improve melee targetting instead of providing alternatives for the lab.

I could make this list longer, considering things that need improvement. But there are likely about a dozen things more important than the labyrinth.

A lot of people here already admitted that alternatives would be cool, but they said it would likely have to wait until after 3.0. Because at that time we will lose a difficulty and that would make it easier to add different mechanics, because you would have to add them only twice. There could of course be another difficulty independent option, I suggested an arena which could give ascandancy points.

Right now though my priority list looks a bit different.

1. 64bit client
2. Melee targetting
3. Quick reconnect feature (without ending up back in town)
4. Some physics addition to make hitting things feel better (like Titans Quest, D3 or Grim Dawn)
5. Some QoL option, exspecially to disable some effects (although I don't have FPS issues, but many people do)

That is basically my Top5 right now and of course I still like to see new content.

"

All that somewhat questions the intention of Lab Lovers for me, it seems that the intention of them is a bit more self-centered ( profit ? ), then what is better for more people.

I could propably say the same about the other side. And if I look at some of the defenders... they aren't really lab runners, also what benefit should they have. The lab would still be there and while people pay for lab runs they do so because they are unable to do the lab, not because they dislike it. And since the lab-haters also claim that the lab is easy and they have no troubles with it, they shouldn't be a benefit to anybody.

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Emphasy wrote:

Well "should" implies they are obligated.

They aren't however. I know a lot of foreigners have issues with this use of the word, because in other languages "should" is a suggestion not an obligation.

1. It implies no such thing (regarding statements about GGG's plans). I agree that they are not obligated. They are not obligated to do anything George suggests in my example above. Or anything else, for that matter. But "should" can be a kind of conditional obligation: "Trump should fire his wig maker [if he doesn't want to look like a complete idiot]." "GGG should fix the Labyrinth [if they don't want it continuing to tarnish their reputation among the many people who hate it]." Perhaps that is what you are thinking of.

2. "Should" can imply a suggestion or an obligation. It does not necessarily imply one or the other. "Oh, you're going to Paris? You should visit the Rodin Museum while you are there."

3. I believe Fruz is a native speaker of English, and not confused due to being a foreigner. Maybe that wasn't what you were implying, but just sayin'.

I like your top 5, by the way. It's not my top 5, but I agree that they are all things GGG "should" be thinking about.

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You forget one thing here. Investment.

I prefer if they put work into a working 64bit client instead of providing alternatives for the lab. I prefer if they would come up with a good physics engine instead of providing alternatives for the lab. I prefer it if they improve melee targetting instead of providing alternatives for the lab.

I could make this list longer, considering things that need improvement. But there are likely about a dozen things more important than the labyrinth.

A lot of people here already admitted that alternatives would be cool, but they said it would likely have to wait until after 3.0. Because at that time we will lose a difficulty and that would make it easier to add different mechanics, because you would have to add them only twice. There could of course be another difficulty independent option, I suggested an arena which could give ascandancy points.

Right now though my priority list looks a bit different.

1. 64bit client
2. Melee targetting
3. Quick reconnect feature (without ending up back in town)
4. Some physics addition to make hitting things feel better (like Titans Quest, D3 or Grim Dawn)
5. Some QoL option, exspecially to disable some effects (although I don't have FPS issues, but many people do)

That is basically my Top5 right now and of course I still like to see new content.

My posting was bond to losing people because of the Lab.

I like your list and agree with all but No. 3., but I don´t see 300 + Threads that scream " I hate 32 bit Client, nearly all my friends quit because there is no 64 bit Client !!! "

So while I agree that alot could need and overhaul, I don´t agree with the sequence of your importance-listing.

"

Shredzilly wrote:

"

You forget one thing here. Investment.

I prefer if they put work into a working 64bit client instead of providing alternatives for the lab. I prefer if they would come up with a good physics engine instead of providing alternatives for the lab. I prefer it if they improve melee targetting instead of providing alternatives for the lab.

I could make this list longer, considering things that need improvement. But there are likely about a dozen things more important than the labyrinth.

A lot of people here already admitted that alternatives would be cool, but they said it would likely have to wait until after 3.0. Because at that time we will lose a difficulty and that would make it easier to add different mechanics, because you would have to add them only twice. There could of course be another difficulty independent option, I suggested an arena which could give ascandancy points.

Right now though my priority list looks a bit different.

1. 64bit client
2. Melee targetting
3. Quick reconnect feature (without ending up back in town)
4. Some physics addition to make hitting things feel better (like Titans Quest, D3 or Grim Dawn)
5. Some QoL option, exspecially to disable some effects (although I don't have FPS issues, but many people do)

That is basically my Top5 right now and of course I still like to see new content.

My posting was bond to losing people because of the Lab.

I like your list and agree with all but No. 3., but I don´t see 300 + Threads that scream " I hate 32 bit Client, nearly all my friends quit because there is no 64 bit Client !!! "

So while I agree that alot could need and overhaul, I don´t agree with the sequence of your importance-listing.

Thats because they aren't the same.

Reddit threads almost daily and sometimes multiple about performance issues. Where are the lab hate threads there, o wait they all get massively downvoted because people don't care about the lab that much one way or another they simply rather have you know the 99% of the game content that you do play be better, but its alright if you hate the lab enough to quit, now you kinda know how people like me feel now that the game is watered down to appeal to casual players.

Furthermore, GGG has addressed the concerns about devise content, they are perfectly fine with having it in the game, they however are NOT fine with having a game that doesn't perform well from a technical standpoint as its clear you can mitigate most of the issue with the lab if you just do the bare min, but performance is a whole nother beast.


300+ threads about the lab is nothing, if I had to guess a number of complaints about performance or post about performance in this game it would foreshadow every other issue ever mentioned about this game.

"

Shredzilly wrote:

.......don´t see 300 + Threads

The whole point is moot so I'll just continue off-topic posting with the rest of you....

This statement is ironic considering the page it is on is comprised entirely of arguments about semantics/opinions without even an iota of worthwhile feedback about the lab. If we split the arguments 60/40 and give haters the 60 (it's probably closer to 50/50 but hey, whatever) and take off 1/2 the pages for crap like this page right here what you'll find is there's only about 100 pages of lab hate here. Of those 100 pages, roughly 90 are just regurgitated trash spewed out by the same 20 or so accounts that made their case in the first 5 pages and then forgot that discussion is not so much the act of screaming over your opponent as it is a presentation of sides with potentially equal merit. The final (5) being reserved for people that were content to just bump the thread without meandering off-topic about grammar. So what are we left with? (5) pages. (5) pages of presented, worthwhile, cogent arguments that GGG has undoubtedly read already and decided upon a course of action.

By all means, continue to post about:
1) The English language
2) Your right as a breathing organism to an opinion about everything
3) The undeniable truths that you alone possess
4) The irrefutable state of PoE
5) The indisputable CAUSE to the state of PoE
6) The ONLY way for PoE to survive heading into 2017 (keeping in mind Ascendancy launched about a year ago and the game is actually doing fine)

Just understand that these posts do not constitute anything beyond a childish desire to fill pages with nonsense in an attempt to achieve what is certainly the highest page count of ridiculousness on any PoE thread ever. They do not, however, represent a driving need for ANYTHING to be done to the labyrinth.

Wrapping it all up, I could care less as the game has gotten truly terrible. [Should I add that that's my opinion? Is that a thing now? Do we need to preface our statements with "in opinion" to avoid hate? Well I won't, so too bad.]

This thread is more fun than the game atm. That's why it gets bumped, with or without nonsense, more than others. There is your driving need.

Some of my chars can do uber lab with ease, others cant do merc.

Make lab tokens or something for chars that are fun to play but not built so well