SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Xtorma wrote:

Lab is not changing. Deal with it, or go elsewhere.

Do you think it is going to work ?
It is not because you tell June bugs that they should take another way that they will stop smashing their head in what lies ahead.
In fact I'm pretty sure that nobody bother because it's no use :<.

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ShaUrley wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

What matters is the more constant player base.

And post-ascendancy/post-prophecy steam player numbers declined rapidly (from an all time high) to below the base that PoE has maintained throughout most of its history. Whether or not this also happens after AoW launches (probably to another all time high) remains to be seen.

Well I did a funny thing at one time and looked at achievements players got. And some games actually give you an achievement for just creating a character or things like that. Considering some of those achievements I could conclude that half of the players usually only play a game they own for about 10 minutes. And a free to play game, exspecially after an expension, usually has a massiv player income at this time and will be no different (actually worse, some might die to hillock and leave^^).

So even though their marketing might reach more players this naturally means that it will reach players that won't actually play the game. Someone interested in ARPG has likely already stumbled upon PoE, so the players you are reaching now are mostly those that are not generally ARPG fans but still give it a try and PoE is not really a game made for this audience.

But if they would have economic reasons for changing the lab they would have done so. That is usually the one thing that sets things in motion fairly quickly. They might maybe make it more accessible or easier to get all the ascendancies (since it takes some time and at some point the game gets overloaded with stuff you have to do for all your characters). But right now there seems to be no plan for changes. 3.0 very likely brings some changes because the gameflow might change, but that is still some time off.

Eventually the numbers will convince them the lab is costing them more players than it brings in. This game is a business afterall and money talks and dung beetles walk or something like that.

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Emphasy wrote:

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ShaUrley wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

What matters is the more constant player base.

And post-ascendancy/post-prophecy steam player numbers declined rapidly (from an all time high) to below the base that PoE has maintained throughout most of its history. Whether or not this also happens after AoW launches (probably to another all time high) remains to be seen.

Well I did a funny thing at one time and looked at achievements players got. And some games actually give you an achievement for just creating a character or things like that. Considering some of those achievements I could conclude that half of the players usually only play a game they own for about 10 minutes. And a free to play game, exspecially after an expension, usually has a massiv player income at this time and will be no different (actually worse, some might die to hillock and leave^^).

So even though their marketing might reach more players this naturally means that it will reach players that won't actually play the game. Someone interested in ARPG has likely already stumbled upon PoE, so the players you are reaching now are mostly those that are not generally ARPG fans but still give it a try and PoE is not really a game made for this audience.

But if they would have economic reasons for changing the lab they would have done so. That is usually the one thing that sets things in motion fairly quickly. They might maybe make it more accessible or easier to get all the ascendancies (since it takes some time and at some point the game gets overloaded with stuff you have to do for all your characters). But right now there seems to be no plan for changes. 3.0 very likely brings some changes because the gameflow might change, but that is still some time off.

This is a thoughtful post. But, it's unconvincing.

You're suggesting that shortly after what is easily the most hated and widely panned new content in the game arrives, it just so happens that "real" ARPG lovers have mostly tried POE and it's primarily those who are disposed to be less interested who are showing up. I suppose it's possible. That's not a strong hypothesis, though.

Also, look at POE's verbiage in claiming Lab is well liked. Essentially, "They play it, so they like it." That's not a very strong line of reasoning and there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that many players put up with Lab for the rewards. GGG has a difficult challenge on their hands in figuring out how much Lab is impacting their game because the effects are hard to distinguish from other possible causes. That's probably part of why they're using on an unreliable measure as a basis for claiming that Lab is well liked.

Some who don't like Lab will quit outright. Some will steer clear of Lab, but continue to play. Some will participate in fewer (or no) temp leagues in the future and slow down their rate of new character creation. Some will still participate in temp leagues, but make less alts. All of these choices reduce engagement and it'll be difficult to tell, with reactions this diverse, just how much damage has been done to POE until a fair amount of time has passed.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Some who don't like Lab will quit outright. Some will steer clear of Lab, but continue to play. Some will participate in fewer (or no) temp leagues in the future and slow down their rate of new character creation. Some will still participate in temp leagues, but make less alts. All of these choices reduce engagement and it'll be difficult to tell, with reactions this diverse, just how much damage has been done to POE until a fair amount of time has passed.

Similarly, in the absence of an explicit statement from GGG, it will take time to tell what their intentions are.

The Uber lab wasn't "doubling down on the lab" as some have suggested; it was, rather, the culmination of a plan which was under development for quite some time. If I were in GGG's shoes, I too would have gone ahead and released that content, regardless of how widely panned the Labyrinth was. They probably figured they should release the content completely and then make judgments based on the reactions, and I agree with that approach.

The next patch will say a lot more about their intentions than the last one.

I still have hopes that they will make the lab more fun (and no, Chris, adding more piñatas does not make unfun content magically become fun) by tweaking its structure and removing the most offensive of the trap gauntlets or creating paths around them, but considering the realities of development resource allocation, I consider it far more likely that they will simply introduce an alternative method of Ascension in order to put out this fire.

And whatever it is, it will likely be in some ways more strict than getting them in the Labyrinth, because if they removed them from the Labyrinth completely then a lot of its lore would stop making sense. So you'll almost certainly still be able to ascend via the Lab, even if an alternative is introduced. And I predict that the Lab will remain the easiest way to Ascend for many builds. That should keep some Lab fans happy, though I imagine the many quite obviously schadenfroh people posting in this thread will be dismayed instead.

But in the long run it seems reasonable to predict that only those who take pleasure watching others suffer will object to that approach.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

This is a thoughtful post. But, it's unconvincing.

You're suggesting that shortly after what is easily the most hated and widely panned new content in the game arrives, it just so happens that "real" ARPG lovers have mostly tried POE and it's primarily those who are disposed to be less interested who are showing up. I suppose it's possible. That's not a strong hypothesis, though.

Also, look at POE's verbiage in claiming Lab is well liked. Essentially, "They play it, so they like it." That's not a very strong line of reasoning and there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that many players put up with Lab for the rewards. GGG has a difficult challenge on their hands in figuring out how much Lab is impacting their game because the effects are hard to distinguish from other possible causes. That's probably part of why they're using on an unreliable measure as a basis for claiming that Lab is well liked.

Some who don't like Lab will quit outright. Some will steer clear of Lab, but continue to play. Some will participate in fewer (or no) temp leagues in the future and slow down their rate of new character creation. Some will still participate in temp leagues, but make less alts. All of these choices reduce engagement and it'll be difficult to tell, with reactions this diverse, just how much damage has been done to POE until a fair amount of time has passed.

The thing that attracted the most players ever on steam is ... Ascendancy.
This is a fact.
More player from unknown background attracted => more player that just try a game but do not stay, plain, simple.

I do not think that GGG said that the lab was "well liked" the lab.
Could you show my where they said that ?

Is Malachai well liked ?
I don't think so.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

But in the long run it seems reasonable to predict that only those who take pleasure watching others suffer will object to that approach.

Please stop with the paranoiac statements.

Nothing paranoid about acknowledging Schadenfreude. Anyone can plainly see that this entire thread is dripping with it, as are most Lab-related threads containing arguments. It says poor things about the community, in my opinion.

And try to look at the entire context of what i say, please. Most of my post was talking about (likely) good news. If those are the only remaining unhappy people after the most likely of solutions comes to pass, then we should all be pleased at the outcome. Yes, that means you too.

No, people are getting tired from couple of posters spamming the forum relentlessy with the same **** over an over.

That makes people much more sensitive to lab complains in general, without a doubt.

I do not think that anybody actually takes pleasure in other's suffering here, it is more likely to me that people would feel relieved to see the couple of people heavily poluting this section of the forum leave, that's all.

A forum is for posting. They don't like the feedback, they are free to go to another forum.

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Pyrokar wrote:

A forum is for posting. They don't like the feedback, they are free to go to another forum.

Or to not read threads that are about labyrinth. As Homer Simpson would say, "Duh"