Labyrinth,the worst content ever made in POE?

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joachimbond wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

I don't think alt+f4 or logging out is a sign of weakness.

Weakness? Not necessarily. But hardcore? Puh-leeeez! Hard core means you will take what comes like an adult and not bitch when it's your fault that you died. The problem with PoE is: it's often something on the server side, or beyond a player's ability to counter, that causes death. That's why you think this way. You've been conditioned to think that alt+f4 IS hardcore. It's not. It's a workaround to SLOPPY GAME DESIGN.

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1. It still requires you to analyze the situation extremely fast and then disconnecting. You have to know what your character can do and what you can't do. Has to happen in a few miliseconds if you don't want to die

Or... you could just play softcore and recognize that GGG has built a very sloppy game with poor balancing built around spike damage, and poor network latency handling and server-side prioritizing.

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2. PoE is very unpredictable in some cases. Some enemies only appear if you stand right next to them and if they have mods your character can't handle (some just can't do elemental/phys reflec), logging is is probably the better solution.

Only because of the sloppy, lazy design. Demand better. Stop playing "hardcore" until they can actually make it hardcore instead of this weak cop-out shit of alt-f4

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3. HC is there to keep your concentration up 100% of the time (SC can be played while sleeping).

Only because you might hit one of these sloppy design points and have to logout to avoid death. Tell me how that's hardcore again? I don't see it. I see lazy designers popping in spike damage into a game that's supposed to be based on skill.

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Like I said before, logging out needs attentional observation, analyzing the situation and doing the right thing in less then 1 second. If you are not concentrated, death comes fast to you.

So i guess the best hardcore players are the ones with quick alt-f4 fingers? Is that the skill you want to be known for? So sad. It's not your fault, it's GGG's fault for using spike damage to kill players. Shame, shame, GGG. Lazy and bad design.

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HC doesn't mean you need to die even if you clearly know you will do so if you are in a bad situation. Otherwise GGG would find a way to not let players log out during combat. It's a leggit way to play HC.

It's a way of being able to brag about playing HC without actually having the skills to counter all content (not your fault, they've designed the content with ludicrous spike damage). so sad and it reminds me of the special olympics in a way.

You read my post, but didn't understand anything.

1. If all people stop playing HC, then the message to GGG would not be "get rid of spike-damage and network-issues". The message would be to get rid of HC all along and only offer SC.

2. Like I said before: The big difference between SC and HC is, that dying in HC means you're out. THat's it. Even if you use Alt+F4, if you are unconcentrated, you will die for 100% on high level maps. Pressing your potion 0.3 seconds to late means you're dead. Using your mobilty skill 0.3 seconds to late means you're dead. It's all about reaction time in high level maps. If you pay not attention, bye bye. In SC, I can play like that. I can literally pay not attention, die and keep playing while sleeping. When I pay no attention in HC, my Alt+F4 tactic won't help me. So if I manage to get lvl 80+, I played the game with all my attention. That's what I want. I don't want to brag about playing HC, I just want to have a more thrilling experience.

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AceNightfire wrote:

You read my post, but didn't understand anything.

Oh I understand it perfectly. [Removed by Support] You think it's normal and A-OK to call that "hardcore". It's NOT hardcore. [Removed by Support] It's flee-core. It's avoid-core. Anything but hardcore.

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(portions removed)
Hard core
adjective
1.
unswervingly committed; uncompromising; dedicated:

You want to explain to everyone how reaching for alt-f4 every time things get dicey is uncompromising and exemplary of unswerving commitment?

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2.
(porn definition)
3.
(de facto definition)
4.
very intense or extreme:
hard-core workouts at the gym.

You want to explain to everyone how having your fingers poised over alt-f4 is "very intense or extreme", except that it's stressful to hold your hand that way?

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5.
(music definition)
6.
noting or relating to video games that can only be mastered with advanced skill and are played in longer sessions, or noting a player of such games:
hard-core gaming.

You want to explain to everyone how being ever-ready to escape the game with a quick keystroke demonstrates "advanced skill"?

Now it's important to note, I don't blame you for this misappropriation of the word "hardcore". It's GGG's fault for implementing the inane "balance around alt-f4" mechanic. You've just been fed this and somehow failed to engage your critical thinking skills to expose that for the nonsense it is.

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1. If all people stop playing HC, then the message to GGG would not be "get rid of spike-damage and network-issues". The message would be to get rid of HC all along and only offer SC.

It would be better than GGG pandering to HC and nerfing cool shit just because some [Removed by Support] can't stand that someone else's build had the audacity to cost less and clear better than their mirror dagger build.

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2. Like I said before: The big difference between SC and HC is, that dying in HC means you're out.

so you're saying it's a self-imposed restriction for the purpose of comparing e-penis size? Okay, I'll accept that.

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THat's it. Even if you use Alt+F4, if you are unconcentrated, you will die for 100% on high level maps. Pressing your potion 0.3 seconds to late means you're dead. Using your mobilty skill 0.3 seconds to late means you're dead. It's all about reaction time in high level maps. If you pay not attention, bye bye. In SC, I can play like that. I can literally pay not attention, die and keep playing while sleeping.

and never level.

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When I pay no attention in HC, my Alt+F4 tactic won't help me. So if I manage to get lvl 80+, I played the game with all my attention. That's what I want. I don't want to brag about playing HC, I just want to have a more thrilling experience.

I guess you don't die to DC and lag like everyone else then. Good for you! [Removed by Support] I hope you're satisfied.

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joachimbond wrote:

It's GGG's fault for implementing the inane "balance around alt-f4" mechanic. You've just been fed this and somehow failed to engage your critical thinking skills to expose that for the nonsense it is.

If GGGs interpretation of hardcore is that you should die when you get in a bad situation, they could easily implement a feature that avoids letting you alt+f4 (for example: Your character stays ingame for 5 seconds after leaving in battle). They don't do it, so I guess alt+f4 or escape+leave is a feature that is accepted by them and therefore part of hardcore.

If you don't leave, it's your choice. Have fun rerolling your character and go through the basic questline over and over again just because of your false proud. I decide to enjoy the game as I want and I like the thrilling experience to be able to die if I don't pay attention all the time. That's the only reason I play HC and not because I want to tell SC players how noobish they are. If that's your reason, I pitty you, but then again, it's your choice and you should play the game as you enjoy it. But don't try to force your unimportant opinion about how someone should play HC on others please.

This threads hilarious, I'm baffled at how many people actually cry about labyrinth. It's one of the most interesting and original things a game has ever added as content. It's actually optional too, any class can easily get to 90 without them if your that scared.

I despise the whole sewer quest line in act 3, don't see me balling my eyes out on forums lol

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macristo wrote:

This threads hilarious, I'm baffled at how many people actually cry about labyrinth. It's one of the most interesting and original things a game has ever added as content. It's actually optional too, any class can easily get to 90 without them if your that scared.

I despise the whole sewer quest line in act 3, don't see me balling my eyes out on forums lol

It doesnt matter if you hate the sewer questline. It's still the classic poe style (random maps with specific monsters all over it and you have to fight your way through). Just because it is interesting content for you, doesnt automatically mean it hits the taste of others too. That's what lab-lovers dont seem or want to understand. Like mentioned many times, there are many reasons why you can hate the lab:

1. For some it's just boring, because you are dodging traps all the time, even if you just want to play with your active damage skills and deal damage to enemies (which isn't important in the lab).

2. Some don't like the fact that they need to build extra tanky or extra high movement speed to be very viable in labyrinth. So builds are just not made for it and that kinda sucks, if 95% of poe content your build is fine, but in the other 5% (lab) your build is absolutely useless and therefore your characters life can easily end in lab.

3. Most traps deal true damage, ignoring many of your build aspects. Even if you are lvl 100, a trap in normal can easily kill you within 2-3 seconds. So if you are someone who likes to play safe and level up before going to a certain boss, it won't help you so much with the labyrinth, at least not against the traps

4. A few players just don't like arcade- or gauntlet-playstyle. And I can perfectly understand them. It's an entire different genre compared to aRPGs. While many aRPGs in history had traps, they never offered gauntlet gameplay. And that's the big difference. People wouldnt care about the lab if it had some scattered traps you can easily avoid (but make your positioning harder when fighting mobs). But in some cases, it's nearly impossible to avoid the traps. You have to pass them in order to finish the lab.

5. And then there are those, who constantly play with a high ping. Not everyone lives close to a server and some play with 100+ or even 200+ ping. In the classic poe gameplay, you can play with 100-200ms. It's not optimal but it works. But in the lab, having high ping is just deadly.

Accurate gameplay and online gaming do not fit well together and GGG needs to understand that. Yes, there are people who easily rush through the ubber lab, because they either have an extreme good connection or they have a specific build made for lab. But what about the others who do not have those things and suffer from a bad connection or just dont have fun with the lab because it is played entirely different then classic poe?

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AceNightfire wrote:

I don't think alt+f4 or logging out is a sign of weakness.

1. It still requires you to analyze the situation extremely fast and then disconnecting. You have to know what your character can do and what you can't do. Has to happen in a few miliseconds if you don't want to die

2. PoE is very unpredictable in some cases. Some enemies only appear if you stand right next to them and if they have mods your character can't handle (some just can't do elemental/phys reflec), logging is is probably the better solution.

3. HC is there to keep your concentration up 100% of the time (SC can be played while sleeping). Like I said before, logging out needs attentional observation, analyzing the situation and doing the right thing in less then 1 second. If you are not concentrated, death comes fast to you.

HC doesn't mean you need to die even if you clearly know you will do so if you are in a bad situation. Otherwise GGG would find a way to not let players log out during combat. It's a leggit way to play HC.

lol... is concentration 'hard' for you? That's not what it means to be hard core in my book. Hardcore means you do something stupid, you die. Its like playing a game of tag and running to mommy as a 'safe zone' anytime someone gets close to you, that's what PoE HC is like allowing alt+f4, it's a joke.

But this is getting off topic... LAB SUCKS!

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AceNightfire wrote:

I don't think alt+f4 or logging out is a sign of weakness.

Of course not, it just turns it into a wannabe HC mode. Or semi-HC, call it whatever.

I wonder how many of uber HC pros will simply leave if delayed exit is implemented.

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torturo wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

I don't think alt+f4 or logging out is a sign of weakness.

Of course not, it just turns it into a wannabe HC mode. Or semi-HC, call it whatever.

I wonder how many of uber HC pros will simply leave if delayed exit is implemented.

They already left because of the labyrinths, do you wanna completely delete the hardcore mode of this game?

Well, in the end, GGG has to give this a thought. If they always let a big part of the community unhappy just because some tryhards don't want any alternatives for those who do not like the new content, the game will be pretty empty in the long run. There's still no real reason to not implement an alternative way to get AC points as long as the original lab stays untouched. The tryhards who say this would change their gameplay experience can't even explain WHY this would change their experience. They just seem to like to see other people suffer from this new content. So the best thing GGG probably can do is to handle this matter like the handled the choice of item allocation. Just give people more options and mostly everyone will be happy. I highly doubt that anyone will really complain if they release an alternative lab way (without or much less traps) for those, who don't like the current lab layouts.

And those who say they will leave the game if GGG tries to cater to both sides (pro- and anti-lab): Good bye, you are just a mischievousness toxic player who wil ruin the game in the long run.

No Worst was by far talisman league. Seriously 100s or hours grinding and combining and using a whole stash tab for a tier 4 ammy that a 20c rare could beat.

At least with icky lab its a fairly decent loot pinata at the end and ascendancy - definitely worth 4x through.


Enchants are utterly a waste of time though - comparable with talisman leagues time vs reward.