Why I struggle to enjoy this game, First time Feedback

Thanks for the support and to the whiners QQ'ing that I have negative things to say about their game. Too bad.

While it's pretty much a given that you can't please everyone all of the time, it is however an entirely different story when person after person after person comes to you and complains about the same things, over and over and over.

The longer you ignore these issues, the bigger and more troublesome they become. It's really as simple as that.

That being said I'll try and make a few replies since there is a number of constructive responses:

- First, as always : If you wish to reply like a child, I'll simply ignore you; so take your flamebait and move along, thanks =)

- I never said that GGG hasn't made any updates in 3 years. I simply said I've played off and on during that time and I've always struggled to enjoy the game, for the reasons stated. To me, those issues I listed have not been addressed sufficiently imo during the time I've played.

Sure, they might have made improvements in regards to some of those points, but to me, they are no better than they were 3 years ago, hence why I said what I said.

- The ID / Portal scrolls imo are a complete waste of time. Yes you can waste your time trying to sell these to MF people as some suggested, and yes they can be used as currency, but the point is ... why bother? There is already umpteen kinds of currency in the game, the "loss" of these 2 isn't going to affect anything but give us all more time playing the game and less time playing the "loot management" mini-game that already chews up vast quantities of time. It's like you are crusading trying to save pennies as a viable form of currency in real life. Sure they have a use, but does anyone really care? nope.

- The shift + left click I purposefully left out, because if anything it only annoys me; as it only proves that what I am asking for can be done and someone just got lazy and half assed the job, but hey, if you wanna crucify me for "not knowing" about this marvellous feat of engineering GGG has graced us with, all the more power to you. Have fun with that!

- Asking players to support your project with cash in advance, so that you can "fix" what we've already paid you for (ie: content that has already been released), is a double slap in the face imo. I fully understand that dev teams don't run on wishes and unicorn farts, that it does take real currency to maintain and create new content and all the overhead that entails. That being said, when did we all have the meeting when we decided that we just accept everything that is put before us, no matter how broken and twisted it is and we are just supposed to be "be happy with what we got"?.

Cause I think I musta been sick that day...

Game companies in general have been sliding downhill for years now (since the mid 2000's really) and every year the content they release gets worse and worse, the price for said content goes up and up and they want more and more money upfront, for less and less content overall.

Nowhere else in the business world is this an acceptable form of behavior for a company. It's like you go to buy a car, you find one you like, you see the price clearly marked and you go "I'll take that one!" and then as you're doing the paperwork, you find out they want to charge you extra if you want doors, or windows, or hell seats or an engine. It's downright criminal what some game companies get away with currently. (Arkham knight, Evolve, Alone in the Dark: Illumination, The Order: 1886, original APB launch, etc, etc)

They just keep coming up with new bullshit ways to monetize what we used to get for our initial investment and if anyone dares to criticize this abysmal business practice, they are ridiculed, slandered, muted, banned, and so on and so forth, until all that are left are a bunch of "yes-men" left nodding their heads.

That being said, I'm not trying to single out GGG as some big bad terrible company that is out to rob us, or trick us, or deceive us, however, I'm simply saying that accepting everything that is put in front of you without any discourse about the quality of said product, or having standards in general, is just monumentally stupid on all the levels imo.

The only real way we have to fight back against things we disagree with, is with our wallets. You want to support a half completed project in the hopes that one day it'll pull it's head out of it's ass and make something of itself, great. Not going to knock you for that, but at the same time, no one should be expected to sink a dime into it either.

We can all sit here until we're old and grey arguing back and forth about what we like & dislike, but ultimately if people aren't giving you any money, your going to try and figure out why and fix it so you can get paid. Just the simple truth of the matter.

- The comments about the name of the company in regards to the grinding in the game are just laughable. I'm sorry if you were trying to be serious, but the entire premise is just absurd to me. Simply put, there is grinding, and then there is grinding.

We all play with (or should) with the expectation that there is going to be a certain amount of grinding in certain types of games. However, just because grinding is part of a game, it doesn't mean that the grinding needs to be tedious, dull, boring, frustrating, monotonous, and ultimately futile unless you were born with a leprechaun up your arse under a double rainbow.

In fact, at least to me, the entire point of a good ARPG (or any rpg for that matter, mmo to action and everything in between) is finding clever ways to fold that grinding into your game, so that people playing it don't even realise they are doing it.

Long story short, they can do better.

- In regards to the list of games I made on the first page, someone asked me for a list of games to play for whatever reason and I obliged. I wasn't trying to compare them to POE. Nor was I attempting to say that any of them were any better than this game or any worse for that matter. I simply gave the person that asked for said list, a list of things to check out and decide for themselves if they might enjoy them. No need to get butt hurt about it.

- Lastly, all of the currency at the higher end of the spectrum needs to drop a lot more, simple as that. Anyone that disagrees with this, is imo, simply deluding themselves, or has simply played for so long that the law of averages has balanced out and made them wealthy enough that they are self sustaining (in standard...); which is great for them, but doesn't help the vast majority of people that aren't. Most people simply don't have the time or the inclination to sink thousands of hours into this game in it's current state in the hopes that they might one day be. (or mostly play leagues where time is always a factor).

There is no reason for the vast majority of this currency to be as rare as it is. The current rates are simply absurd. The same can be said for how difficult it is either find or craft a 6 link item, or finding high level maps (ie: 12-15 as an example), especially while running solo.

There is nothing wrong with having goals, both short and long term in any game. The trick is not making those goals seem like a second job, so as many players can actually enjoy playing the game as possible.


~Fin

*shrugs*

i would be fine with agendas like "WE ALL SHOULD STOP SUPPORTING THE GAME IF DEVS DONT IMPLEMENT X" if there were agendas like "WE ALL SHOULD SUPPORT MORE BECAUSE THEY WILL RELEASE Y SOON".

while i can (naturally) see the first everywhere on a daily basis, i've never seen the latter. to restore the balance there is no other way to just counter the first agenda.

if the game was as shitty as some players describe it here it would be long dead. sure it has it's flaws, everybody has to decide for if it's own if it's still worth one's support.

killing the game by cutting their salary is not improving the game. if support runs out, they just pull the plug on servers, chris made that clear some time ago.

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vio wrote:

killing the game by cutting their salary is not improving the game. if support runs out, they just pull the plug on servers, chris made that clear some time ago.

Atm Chris is game dev - in the future he will be politician, for sure. Already uses same tactics ^^
Angela Merkel would say exactly the same... just add an "alternativlos" at the end to let every customer know "shut up and give us your money"... or Wraeclast WILL DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :>

Peace,

-kcstar-

"

Raudram wrote:

I myself get an average of 1 chaos/vaal orb every 4-6 maps or so and have never seen anything better than that drop. The only way to make some currency is to get an expensive unique with good rolls or an amazing rare, of which I have seen zero. The currency that you can farm yourself reliably is alright but if you are to use it yourself, it is highly unlikely that you will get 6 sockets, or 6 link something, or alch a good rare, or chance an unique, so all that currency is quickly spent and needs to be farmed again for a few days.

Combined with random oneshots that make you lose exp, the experience isn't very enjoyable. I am fine with grind, it just doesn't feels like I'm getting anything out of it.

Yeh, there are some mapping sessions in which you feel that you have just been lugging around carrying total **** (i try to reach the map boss more or less full inventory to then portal to id enough rares to save time) and it can be frustrating, but then there are others that make a huge difference: rare jewellery drops aplenty to do the chaos/regal recipe quite a few times, a valuable T2 etc that makes up for the time spent. That is until an exalt/T1 drops and especially in the case of the latter finances quite a bit of the league (I usually play hc so obviously rips are 'expensive', even so normally have 5+ exalts pure and quite a variety of stuff/currency earlyish). I do feel the pressure of the leagues being 3 months, I preferred 4 but I can understand GGG's reasons although they may be pressuring themselves (and us!) too much.

I agree with everything OP said, the only exception are scrolls, just introduce a book of wisdom and a book of portal so we can store maybe 100-200 scrolls in these books.

"

vio wrote:

killing the game by cutting their salary is not improving the game. if support runs out, they just pull the plug on servers, chris made that clear some time ago.

Serious? I thought that pre order shit and threat your customers is crypto community exklusive.

Guess i learnt something here. ;)

Good post, for new people this game is mess. Too much to learn and no tutorial.


A1 N1 should be a big tutorial you can activate or not.

Maybe create a pre A1n1 where it is like only hillock to brutus with text windows explaining everything and crypted drops to make it easier to explain what are those currencies/items.


Also we need intro with dancing naked penis statue with intro music and dangling testicules.

"

Mordad wrote:

Serious? I thought that pre order shit and threat your customers is crypto community exklusive.

How come people think it's a "threat" when a company says "if not enough people are interested in paying for our product/service, we stop and do something we can live off".
You can't compare that with bullshit politics like "alternativlos", it's just real life.

vio's comment is on point.
My current supporter pack comes from enjoying the content that's already their, an amount of money i gave them willingly because they gave me fun. Why does the OP even compare this to some Full-price AAA games with completely different business models?
PoE is the fairest F2P-model i know of...

Also:
I like portal and id-scrolls and the map-overlay.

To me as a "new" casual player this game makes a hell of a good impression, but imo we need more games without a "to walk left press the 'left'-button"-tutorial, anyway.

"

ejester wrote:

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SupaMF wrote:

I agree with basicly everything.

Since you seem to be playing a lot of games, can you show me one that is fun and doesn't look like a full time job like PoE?

After 900 hours, this game just looks like an endless frustration loop. Looking for another one, but it's not an easy task.

If you check the forum, everything you said, players said before and nothing was done about it. Seems that they just wanna keep the game the way it is. Sadly I just checked out the forum after 3 months or so playing.

:/

Ya I don't expect these guys to get off their ass and do anything about it, but there is zero incentive for me to spend a single cent on this game until they make some changes. Been like 3 years already, not like it's difficult to resist spending money on a game that the dev refuse to improve.

As for other games, Marvel Heroes (on steam or stand alone client) isn't too shabby, probably my top suggestion. Some other games I'll mention:

- Warhammer: Vermintide (steam game, like a mix of a ARPG & a co-op game like Left 4 Dead, big update coming soon (tm) with a new game mode

- Grim Dawn - (another ARPG game. This is already 100% content complete and launches out of early access on steam end of this month I believe)

- Warframe (I suggest this hesitantly, while the game is ok, there is a lot of work to do in it)

- Tree of Savior (spiritual successor to ragnarok) launches soon, looks alright. Depends on how brutal the cash shop is

- Black Desert Online (same as above, launches soon / depends on cash shop not sucking)

- Paragon - new game coming soon from Epic (makers of UT99 / 2k4, etc). Like Smite, but better and without the crappy company running it (ie: hi-rez).

- Lost Ark (MMO) looks pretty nice, though I admit I haven't read much about it. On my radar though

- The Secret World - can't say enough good things about this game really. How F2P games should be run imo.

- Shadowrun Chronicles : Infected (directors cut) - can find it on steam. Fun if your craving some nostalgia. Despite the meager graphics, it's enjoyable. Getting a new mission expansion soon

Hope that helps.

Cheers.

And how many of those games can you play without spending a dime of real money?

"

Antaiseito wrote:

"

Mordad wrote:

Serious? I thought that pre order shit and threat your customers is crypto community exklusive.

How come people think it's a "threat" when a company says "if not enough people are interested in paying for our product/service, we stop and do something we can live off".
You can't compare that with bullshit politics like "alternativlos", it's just real life.

vio's comment is on point.
My current supporter pack comes from enjoying the content that's already their, an amount of money i gave them willingly because they gave me fun. Why does the OP even compare this to some Full-price AAA games with completely different business models?
PoE is the fairest F2P-model i know of...

Also:
I like portal and id-scrolls and the map-overlay.

To me as a "new" casual player this game makes a hell of a good impression, but imo we need more games without a "to walk left press the 'left'-button"-tutorial, anyway.

Look, i left POE during open beta, this product hasn't improved much(i'm not talking about new content) since i came back last year im reading/browsing the forum daily.
The complaints are more or less the same and GGG just ignore this but they ask for support? LOL?

So if you refer to real life pls tell me why should i invest money in a company that is ignoring customer complains and has no itention to improve the product to satisfy their current customers and accumulate new customers?

And yes, give me money or i pull the plug sounds like a threat to me.


Yes POE has the fairest F2P-model thats true but it has nothing to do with the topic, OP doesn't talk about their buissness model, he is just a customer who is worried about current and future state of the game and is asking for improvents so we all can enjoy the game for a long time.


People refer to this game like... this for the hardcore crowd, elite and stuff.

You know what this only works as long as there is no choice.

I'm pretty sure GGG is aware of upcoming games and the $ cake gets smaller.

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mark1030 wrote:

And how many of those games can you play without spending a dime of real money?

So long as other people are footing the bill for the server costs, the art assets that need payment to develop, the salaries of the other employees, electrical and other maintenance costs of the buildings...not a cent. Of course, if everyone thought that way about a game that is 'free'...well...wouldn't be much of a free game left around to play since it's really not 'free to play' in the grand scheme of things. :P