Unpopular Idea: Revive Hardcore Players

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goetzjam wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

There's only one way to play hardcore.

And that's in offline mode.

Like what?


Offline mode removes the system that actually checks if you are cheating or not.


care to support that statement with anything?

...And? Offline mode practically equals SP. Do you care if someone cheats in Fallout? Do you care if someone cheats in Skyrim? Witcher? The list goes on and on...

Offline SP would be the true SF mode for those who want to play the game that way. I would sure as hell play offline HC, since I would only be screwed by my own actions and oneshots, not by anything server related that is currently responsible for about 90% of my incurring deaths.

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mynameisonlyforthegods wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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Vhlad wrote:

There's only one way to play hardcore.

And that's in offline mode.

Like what?


Offline mode removes the system that actually checks if you are cheating or not.


care to support that statement with anything?

...And? Offline mode practically equals SP. Do you care if someone cheats in Fallout? Do you care if someone cheats in Skyrim? Witcher? The list goes on and on...

Offline SP would be the true SF mode for those who want to play the game that way. I would sure as hell play offline HC, since I would only be screwed by my own actions and oneshots, not by anything server related that is currently responsible for about 90% of my incurring deaths.

Do I care, not really, but this game was designed to be an ONLINE ARPG with a heavy focus on economy, the game essentially wouldn't be the same solo\self found because it isn't meant to be played that way.


In terms of others cheating, the only thing is it removes the competitive nature IMO, granted that isn't for everyone.



But I rather he explain why the only way to play hardcore is an offline mod.....

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mark1030 wrote:

And how do you prove it was a wrongful death?

Chris said that the QA for having linux support would cost like $30k per year and they didn't think that was worth it (not even counting the cost to make it linux compatible in the first place). How much is an acceptable amount of money to spend per year to have a team dedicated to investigating every submitted hardcore death to make a judgement whether the death happened while the player had control of the character or not? They'd surely get as many false claims as real claims because people don't like losing their characters. So, how much money should they spend on these investigations?

Unless they start offering a subscription cost for hardcore players who want this protection, any money spent investigating deaths is money taken from making the game better.

Those are all wonderful questions. I don't have the answers. So far as I know, nobody does. Is it really such a daunting task that GGG hasn't even considered the costs, knowing already that they'd be substantial? How much is a license for a dedicated ticket system, let alone the cost of the manpower to run such a system/support for the players? What would you define as 'making the game better'?

For that last one I would certainly say that this is a change that would make the game better by leaps and bounds, but that's from a personal view. Knowing that I can play hardcore without (or with much less) fear of dying wrongfully would spur me to play much more often than I currently am. More playtime means I'd be likely to spend more money on their daily deals/surprise packs/supporter packs. Does it pay for itself? I don't know, and I don't know how you even come to those numbers.

Is GGG even looking into these numbers? Should they be? Depending on early estimates, my argument is: yes. They should. As popular as they are, now would be a good time to look into more positive player experiences, and a great place to start would be their policy on HC characters and wrongful deaths.

Because online and hardcore is just a pretty bad combination. One lag and your dead, and it is not even your fault. I thought that was pretty obvious from his statement.

In Germany I was thrown out of the game in regular intervals because the ISPs re-distribute the IPs. Automatic disconnect at least once a day. So in order to play HC, I would have had to set an alarm on my phone to remind myself that a DC is incoming. Not even sure they happen at the same time every day.


EDIT: As response to the post above me, I still think that it is best to work on making "wrong" deaths less likely and not consider reviving dead hardcore characters. So again: Configurable logout / lagout timer.

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Char1983 wrote:

Because online and hardcore is just a pretty bad combination. One lag and your dead, and it is not even your fault. I thought that was pretty obvious from his statement.

In Germany I was thrown out of the game in regular intervals because the ISPs re-distribute the IPs. Automatic disconnect at least once a day. So in order to play HC, I would have had to set an alarm on my phone to remind myself that a DC is incoming. Not even sure they happen at the same time every day.


EDIT: As response to the post above me, I still think that it is best to work on making "wrong" deaths less likely and not consider reviving dead hardcore characters. So again: Configurable logout / lagout timer.

A good idea. I know that hotkeys are, in fact, allowed; perhaps even implement something into the game (much like item filters) that helps players to create hotkeys, or explain the quickest/most reliable way to sever your connection and make sure your character is logged out in enough time to survive a disconnect. I'm not really on board with either of those changes, but I wouldn't be opposed to them either.

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Char1983 wrote:

In Germany I was thrown out of the game in regular intervals because the ISPs re-distribute the IPs. Automatic disconnect at least once a day. So in order to play HC, I would have had to set an alarm on my phone to remind myself that a DC is incoming. Not even sure they happen at the same time every day.

It changed a few years ago and only older lines are affected by it. It's a relic from early online times when the Deutsche Telekom introduced a 24h automatic disconnect to stop people from (ab)using regular phone lines as leased lines (Standleitungen).

All Telekom approved routers have a setting (Zwangstrennung) where you can specify the reset time, though it's not more precise than within an hour's frame, so you can say "Between 5 and 6 in the morning", but not "5:30". If you don't use that setting in the router, the forced disconnect occurs every 24h, but happens a little later every day because it takes a few moments to reconnect, so the reconnect time is pushed forward.

My DSL line still has that "feature", until hopefully next month when they upgrade it. I usually have my reset time set to a time when I'm probably sleeping, so it doesn't interrupt PoE or other games. :p But yes, there were times when I also forgot and then was like "Argh! Crap! Why did I forget! *rush back*").

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grant_m wrote:

@ ToBeSomebody:

There will never be a time when this game will offer a guaranteed way to prevent BS-HC deaths. It is impossible because of the nature of online connectivity.

It is also impossible to suggest that GGG employs people at OUR expense specifically to investigate HC character deaths. Can you imagine how many cases they'd have to go through? If YOU want to foot the bill for this sort of thing out of YOUR OWN pocket, then fine. Bring it on.

The real solution is for you to play in non-HC mode and play not to die. That way, if a death happens, it's up to you to decide whether the death was BS or your fault. If you feel it was BS, just continue along. If it was bad play on your part, delete the character and all of its contents immediately.

I know it is possible to do this, because that is how I do it.

Simple solution to a simple problem.

edit - Addressing your point on logout macros:

I agree that because GGG considers instant log out macros an integral part of play in PoE, they ABSOLUTELY 100% should include a configurable instant logout shortcut key as part of the UI. It is ridiculous that it isn't in there.

Having worked on the low end of the totem pole of video game support, I've learned to steer clear of the word 'never' (and 'always,' absolutes in general). Right here, right now? Seems impossible. Impractical. Not even worth it if it were either of those things, at least to most users (the majority of responses in this thread, really, with the exception of...well, me). It pains me to see that everyone just agrees it's never going to happen and to live with it. But that's seeming to be a pain that I and anyone else who feels the same will have to live with, at least until such a time comes when the majority agrees that this is something worth looking into.

But let me point something out before I let it go and simply start replying to play devil's advocate here: what's so outlandish about suggesting GGG does something at our expense? Isn't this whole game created, distributed, supported at...our expense? We're the ones playing it. This was made for us. In fact that's why this section of the forums even exists: to suggest ideas for them to 'foot the bill on' in order to make this game better for us. Isn't it?

Edit: Let me also point out that I'm not asking for a guaranteed way to prevent deaths, nor a guaranteed way to right the wrongs. What we have now is, as I've stated, a one-size-fits-all solution that 'works' for everyone with no questions asked. What I'm asking for is a system that does away with such an archaic notion as that and provides some support for those times when you weren't at fault. Shit happens. It's the internet. I've never challenged that. I just want GGG to help clean up said shit when they know they're at fault for it being there in the first place.

I have started playing in softcore league because GGG has stopped making two challenge leagues - something I totally dislike.

I originally started in Talisman in hardcore but of late the game has been overall less-stable on my machine. Over 95% of my deaths in hardcore this league have been due some kind of disconnection (primarily a crash, internet failure, power surge).

Others, as far as I am are aware have come to pass because of stun or some mechanic I expect will be mitigated or nerfed in the future.

I've come to terms with the fact I can't play hardcore because the time lost is too costly for me now - especially when I am not at fault (and for some not even GGG are at fault) for the majority of it.

I would probably still play hardcore if it came with awesome challenge leagues like Nemesis, Invasion and Beyond.

If game stability doesn't improve, and they don't offer unique leagues I probably never will again.

Everyone with similar problems should do the same.