Softcore is not softcore

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tiberiuscg wrote:

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simpler wrote:

Glasscannon builds are not as viable

theres no such thing as tanker/dps/healer in ARPGS. this is NOT a mmorpg where you max something and leave whatever else behind

if you want to badly to be a glasscannon then at least have a spell totem that summons skeletons

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bhavv wrote:

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solistus wrote:

That's a ridiculous exaggeration. It's not even possible to take 90-95% hp nodes.

If you don't think there is healthy build diversity in this game, I don't even know what to say. You must not be playing the same game as I am. Aside from the people who copy cookie cutter builds from a forum thread or famous streamer, I don't see anyone running identical builds at endgame.

Every build needs enough defense and hp, but that's what I mean by not wanting infinite build diversity. If you want to completely disregard the main stat that determines how long you can stay alive, without doing something like CI + ES stacking that makes up for this obvious and massive deficiency in your plan, expect to die a lot.

Im doing CI + ES stacking. I cannot get enough ES for it to work to keep myself alive, it is VASTLY INFERIOR than if I had simply spent the same number of points on health nodes instead.

Stop trying to fool yourself into thinking that any kind of defensive perks other HP stacking are currently valid, they are not especially if you want to solo.

Every build needs to have a majority of its points spent into health nodes to currently be viable, that is absolutely not any kind of build diversity, and I know I'm repeating myself all the time on this issue, but I wont stop doing so until at the least, a character focusing on Armor, Evasion and / or ES as alternatives for defense are equally viable to those simply stacking HP.

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ManiaCCC wrote:

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tiberiuscg wrote:

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simpler wrote:

Glasscannon builds are not as viable

theres no such thing as tanker/dps/healer in ARPGS. this is NOT a mmorpg where you max something and leave whatever else behind

if you want to badly to be a glasscannon then at least have a spell totem that summons skeletons

ARPGs have their own..well..call them roles..if you want.. and glass canons are one of these..

in fact every character in APRG is supposed to be DPS.. difference is in way of delivery and of course..style of play..you can have tanky characters, agile-hard to hit characters, glass canons, summoners etc..in good ARPG..building characters like these should be possible and be viable in end-game...currently we can hardly talk about character diversity at all..

Just one example.. I got another friend into the game.. Believe me..he is smart guy..And when I showed him passive tree, he was overwhelmed in good way.. he read some of the nodes and he was really looking forward to play this game.. He said that customization seems to be awesome in this game..almost endless possibilities ..yea...this is exactly how PoE is advertising itself..

he launched the game..and he wanted to make archer character but with some tanky minions..basically undead ranger or something like that.. He had blast..but after three days ..he is asking me What he is doing wrong? That tree is so massive but he can't really build character he want..In moment when he will stop focusing on minions, they are rapidly becoming just one shooted by everything..that they really don't serve their purpose..that only way to make these minions viable is to focus mostly on them..but he wanted to them just to tank so he can deal damage from range..but his minions are one shooted, he is dead after few hits because..it was not his goal to have tanky character so he put some evasive nodes and few HP nodes..and of course..he wasn't able to boost his archery skill much...he was even forced to put points to super fun nodes like accuracy.

Now he asked me if there is way to make character how he wants...and I told him I am not sure..Only viable builds with summons I saw are these uber summoners ..necros...basically summons, auras, curses..aaaaand HP nodes :P Think about it.. bazillions options but only one way to make summoner? That's the problem with current game.. yes..there are few options how you can build characters..but every single viable build is pigeonholed into very specific path..you really can't make your dream character..unless you always wanted to be tanky character spamming ranged skill...

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ManiaCCC wrote:

Now he asked me if there is way to make character how he wants...and I told him I am not sure..Only viable builds with summons I saw are these uber summoners ..necros...basically summons, auras, curses..aaaaand HP nodes :P Think about it.. bazillions options but only one way to make summoner? That's the problem with current game.. yes..there are few options how you can build characters..but every single viable build is pigeonholed into very specific path..you really can't make your dream character..unless you always wanted to be tanky character spamming ranged skill...

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folderpirate wrote:

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simpler wrote:

I know that Path of Exile is suppose to be a hard and "unforgiving" game but losing experience when you die doesn't fit in softcore.

1.) I play softcore because I can't handle the stress of never dying. I just want to log on and whether I play for 20 minutes or several hours have fun and feel like I'm progressing with my character. But with the experience loss on death I can never relax. I know we all play games for different reasons, some play to challenge themself and some play just to relax and have a great time not feeling any stress.

I thought that's why there is a Softcore and a Hardcore league. To have something for both of those groups, but now whith this severe death penalty the casuals have no where to enjoy themself.

2.) It removes build deversity. Glasscannon builds are not as viable and you allways need to play defensive and not take any risks.


I understand that there must be some penalty on death but losing 15% of the progression to the next level is way to much.

Don't tell me to go play LoL or something, I really enjoy this game but getting the feeling of wasting my time every time I die is really harsh. Right now it's more like Less-Hardcore and Hardcore league.

Then stop dying.


Most people in HC just delete the character after death, your "problems" are trivial. The death penalty is there to punish you for dying. So STOP DYING.

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JudgeDuck wrote:

The forever grind is the reason games stay interesting, well, forever. Because it allows you to always have progression and something to aim for. It works really well for games like League of Legends where they release characters more often than a casual player can make the points to buy them. It works in world of tanks where you'd have to play for years to unlock every tank and it works in Eve Online where you'll probably never get every skill. :p

In ARPG games the forever grind is made by losing XP on death. It's the reason Diablo 2 is still a popular game today, and, it's the reason you got so bored with Diablo 3 after you realized there wasn't anything left go grind for.

It's not anti-fun, it's there to ensure you can keep having fun and nothing kills a game faster than hitting the maximum level.

Aside from that I think people like Invalesco and Kripparian have done a fairly good job of proving how most builds can work if you put enough thought (and effort) into getting the right gear.

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yastru wrote:

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bhavv wrote:

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solistus wrote:

That's a ridiculous exaggeration. It's not even possible to take 90-95% hp nodes.

If you don't think there is healthy build diversity in this game, I don't even know what to say. You must not be playing the same game as I am. Aside from the people who copy cookie cutter builds from a forum thread or famous streamer, I don't see anyone running identical builds at endgame.

Every build needs enough defense and hp, but that's what I mean by not wanting infinite build diversity. If you want to completely disregard the main stat that determines how long you can stay alive, without doing something like CI + ES stacking that makes up for this obvious and massive deficiency in your plan, expect to die a lot.

Im doing CI + ES stacking. I cannot get enough ES for it to work to keep myself alive, it is VASTLY INFERIOR than if I had simply spent the same number of points on health nodes instead.

Stop trying to fool yourself into thinking that any kind of defensive perks other HP stacking are currently valid, they are not especially if you want to solo.

Every build needs to have a majority of its points spent into health nodes to currently be viable, that is absolutely not any kind of build diversity, and I know I'm repeating myself all the time on this issue, but I wont stop doing so until at the least, a character focusing on Armor, Evasion and / or ES as alternatives for defense are equally viable to those simply stacking HP.

agree. hp stacking should be viable option, but evasion & armor should also be much more closer to being that effective.

99% of threads about evasion & armor say that it sucks and that its not a viable option in endgame. that severely dampens my desire to roll shadow as my next character.

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Chris wrote:

Last week we added an experience penalty upon death - a percentage of the current level (you can't go down a level). It was set at:

Hard Difficulty: 0%
Cruel Difficulty: 5%
Ruthless Difficulty: 10%

So far this is working well. It successfully curbed abusive leveling behaviour that relied on far too many deaths. Some testers complain at me directly via MSN when they die and lose 20 minutes of grinding on their high level characters.

We don't know that we'll stay with this system - it's just a simple one we're trying to see how well it works...