Controlled Destruction/Void Manipulation downsides should be a less multiplier

Negating extra critical damage is a great idea. I think it's a good path to take for Controlled Destruction.

"100% less critical multiplier" actually means your crits deal zero damage, because your damage is multiplied by zero when you crit. 100% increased critical strike multiplier means your crits deal triple your base damage (150% * (1+100/100) = 300%).

Now that I think about it, I think the ideal drawback for the skill is:
100% reduced Critical Strike chance (which actually reduces it to zero if no other increases)
33% less Critical Strike Multiplier (so crits now multiply off of 100% damage... straight-up 33% less damage with criticals)

having it reduce to 0% crit chance is a buff for the gem, oddly,. because of romiras etc.

I just needs to obliterate crit, if you are a crit spec this gem should not be for you.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

having it reduce to 0% crit chance is a buff for the gem, oddly,. because of romiras etc.

I just needs to obliterate crit, if you are a crit spec this gem should not be for you.

This is why spell casters can't have nice things, as soon as they get one thing that might be good people just want to nerf the shit out of it....


Aside from bladefall which is unbalanced, probably furthermore then incinerate was with this gem, what spells are truly too powerful with this gem and still building around crit. I understand how it works in terms of reducing the crit chance you have and that you still can crit, but that downside seems rather large to work around, it makes "full crit" builds be what 70 something percent instead of higher, but gives more reliable damage then "crit capping" so thats why people are using it.

It never reduces final chance to crit more than a flat 8% (Discharge). Pretty casual downside imo.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

having it reduce to 0% crit chance is a buff for the gem, oddly,. because of romiras etc.

I just needs to obliterate crit, if you are a crit spec this gem should not be for you.

This is why spell casters can't have nice things, as soon as they get one thing that might be good people just want to nerf the shit out of it....


Aside from bladefall which is unbalanced, probably furthermore then incinerate was with this gem, what spells are truly too powerful with this gem and still building around crit. I understand how it works in terms of reducing the crit chance you have and that you still can crit, but that downside seems rather large to work around, it makes "full crit" builds be what 70 something percent instead of higher, but gives more reliable damage then "crit capping" so thats why people are using it.

if ur base crit chance is 5% it removes 5% of your final crit chance...

so if you are a crit arc build, this gem gives you more damage than a 20/20 added lightning, it gives you more damage than a lvl4 empower, it gives you more damage than a 20/20 crit multi gem. Oh look my crit chance went from 49% to 44%, and I gained 44% MORE damage... seriously? That seems like a large work around for you? You dont even work around it, you lost 5% crit chance it means nothing at all when you are getting over 40% more damage, its absolutely absurd.

you work around the crit nerf of this gem same way you work around the reduced attack speed on physical projectile attack damage, basically you use the gem, always, and you dont give a shit about the non existent downside for even a second.

I agree with parts of some people's points... but I'm not sure it has to be a less multiplier, it could perhaps be a larger reduced percent or etc.

Being able to still consider this gem while going crit is kind of a good thing. Build diversity. You want too many good things to choose from, such that you have to drop some.

The real valid complaint is just the current balance. The complaint that it's still best in slot and therefore no other choice is very viable in comparison is a complaint of removing build diversity. And its a concern of balance.

But please understand there is also some amount of reduced that will bring balance, just like there is some amount of less that will bring balance. The argument is merely in the magnitude of the value used.


Generally, using this support with crit, as is, will make it that much less efficent to invest in crit multiplier. And crazy crit multiplier is also crazy scaling when a good crit chance is applied. So maybe make it 150% reduced. But it's probably more balanced already than you realize.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

having it reduce to 0% crit chance is a buff for the gem, oddly,. because of romiras etc.

I just needs to obliterate crit, if you are a crit spec this gem should not be for you.

This is why spell casters can't have nice things, as soon as they get one thing that might be good people just want to nerf the shit out of it....


Aside from bladefall which is unbalanced, probably furthermore then incinerate was with this gem, what spells are truly too powerful with this gem and still building around crit. I understand how it works in terms of reducing the crit chance you have and that you still can crit, but that downside seems rather large to work around, it makes "full crit" builds be what 70 something percent instead of higher, but gives more reliable damage then "crit capping" so thats why people are using it.

Crit LL arcer with 55% chance to crit without a 6th support:

Arc
Echo
Faster Casting
Light Pen
Empower (better blue gems but need a red swap for leech when map mods require)
6th gem


Test:
77,277.6 No 6th Gem Support.
85,459.5 19/20 Increased Critical Strikes Gem (FU Awakening gem de-levelling).
90,740.2 19/20 Added Lightning Gem (FU Awakening gem de-levelling).
92,235.7 20/23 Increased Critical Damage Gem (same as a 21/20).
106,198.2 20/20 Controlled Destruction Gem.

Now, InB4 tooltip isn't everything. True, but in this case it is showing accurate weights on dps increases that these supports offer. One indeed does have to consider that crit chance has a 'hidden' benefit in that the lower the crit chance pre charge, the slower max crit is achieved and the more chance there is to slump from max crit chance. Shocking is also a factor. It's basically fluidity and can be tried and tested manually to see (ignoring tooltip dps) what plays out more fluid and what clears better.

I can tell you, without any doubt whatsoever, that in real play testing, clear speed, fluidity, the OpieOPness of Controlled Destruction versus the others is not challenged. Even using Void Battery that has a very real penalty for not being charged and relies heavily on crit chance for that reason.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

"100% less critical multiplier" actually means your crits deal zero damage, because your damage is multiplied by zero when you crit. 100% increased critical strike multiplier means your crits deal triple your base damage (150% * (1+100/100) = 300%).

Now that I think about it, I think the ideal drawback for the skill is:
100% reduced Critical Strike chance (which actually reduces it to zero if no other increases)
33% less Critical Strike Multiplier (so crits now multiply off of 100% damage... straight-up 33% less damage with criticals)

Well the thing with 100% reduced is that it seems as if base critchance always applies. You could however just use the stat on assassins mark instead of the usual crit multiplier. Assassins Mark has Critical Damage. So controlled Destruction could simply give more Damage and less critical damage. So if you say "100% less extra damage from critical strikes", critical strikes will always deal base-damage and the modifier for this should be around since it is used on Assassins Mark.