Controlled Destruction/Void Manipulation downsides should be a less multiplier

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grepman wrote:

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Ashen_Shugar_IV wrote:

Most spells have 5-6% base crit chance, so a ~50% spell crit build is going to use Controlled Destruction and get 44% more spell damage in exchange for their crit chance being reduced to ~45%.
You basically get a final reduction equal to your base crit chance. Downside not strong enough imo (130% MM too if we start comparing against Conc Effect).
I haven't play-tested it enough yet though so I was reserving judgement.

Nice post Goeztjam +1.

I'm not Goetztjam tho... FeelsBadMan :)

I am feels good someone +1 me before I even respond to the thread.


IMO we need to wait and see before we nerf the shit out of something that is opening up some options for spell casters, which aside from incinerate last patch and bladefall this patch is still yet to be determined on how much of a nerf these new support gems truly need.

Knowing GGG they'll double the penalty, nerf the bonus by 55%, increase the mana multiplier, release better supports, and buff other supports by 20-30%. In one patch.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I definitely agree that Void Manipulation should be a less penalty. Probably not a 25% one though; 20% seems okay.

When it comes to Controlled Destruction, I feel 100% less or "You cannot deal Critical Strikes" is a bad move, because I feel the random increases you get to crit should still do something. I also think 100% reduced critical strike chance is quite a severe penalty. I'd vote to keep it as is, so that it can completely remove crit if that's what the player wants, but if it does get a "less" penalty it should probably be 50% instead of 100%.

It currently won't reduce your crit below the base of the spell.

That is: If you are a caster with 100% crit chance investment, with a spell with a base 5% crit chance, the 100% reduced from Controlled destruction will reduce your crit chance to from 10% to 5%.

However: If you are a caster with 0 investment into crit, with a spell with a base 5% crit chance, the 100% reduced from Controlled destruction will not reduce your crit chance from 5% to 0%. But it will remain at 5%.

^Sadly, that's accurate.

Was hoping it would reduce it to 0 for an experimental build.

How about

"%more damage
% cast speed
100% less critical chance"

:D

completely exclude it from crit builds. And reward non-crit handsomely.

Peace,

-Boem-

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However: If you are a caster with 0 investment into crit, with a spell with a base 5% crit chance, the 100% reduced from Controlled destruction will not reduce your crit chance from 5% to 0%. But it will remain at 5%.

That likely is an oversight though. Not that meaningful, but there aren't many things that reduce critchance and before they all still wanted you to make crits (like trading critchance for multiplier is only meaningful if you can crit). So I guess it is a mechanical reason why crits always have their base-chance unless you can not crit.

To be fair I don't fell those skills need that much of a downside. Supports need good alternatives. For Arc as one example there is hardly anything to use it with. Melee Physical does not have any downsides at all and Spell Echo which is still more powerful hardly has a downside... it even makes Spells cheaper :P.

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goetzjam wrote:

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grepman wrote:

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Ashen_Shugar_IV wrote:

Most spells have 5-6% base crit chance, so a ~50% spell crit build is going to use Controlled Destruction and get 44% more spell damage in exchange for their crit chance being reduced to ~45%.
You basically get a final reduction equal to your base crit chance. Downside not strong enough imo (130% MM too if we start comparing against Conc Effect).
I haven't play-tested it enough yet though so I was reserving judgement.

Nice post Goeztjam +1.

I'm not Goetztjam tho... FeelsBadMan :)

I am feels good someone +1 me before I even respond to the thread.


IMO we need to wait and see before we nerf the shit out of something that is opening up some options for spell casters, which aside from incinerate last patch and bladefall this patch is still yet to be determined on how much of a nerf these new support gems truly need.

Spoiler

But like always, people likely not playing around it chime and and some other playstyle got something they didn't so gotta QQ basically.

where is the QQ in this thread ? I've read it all and found none.

This is highly valueable topic and should be visible a lot mlre so:

Bump.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I definitely agree that Void Manipulation should be a less penalty. Probably not a 25% one though; 20% seems okay.

When it comes to Controlled Destruction, I feel 100% less or "You cannot deal Critical Strikes" is a bad move, because I feel the random increases you get to crit should still do something. I also think 100% reduced critical strike chance is quite a severe penalty. I'd vote to keep it as is, so that it can completely remove crit if that's what the player wants, but if it does get a "less" penalty it should probably be 50% instead of 100%.

It currently won't reduce your crit below the base of the spell.

That is: If you are a caster with 100% crit chance investment, with a spell with a base 5% crit chance, the 100% reduced from Controlled destruction will reduce your crit chance to from 10% to 5%.

However: If you are a caster with 0 investment into crit, with a spell with a base 5% crit chance, the 100% reduced from Controlled destruction will not reduce your crit chance from 5% to 0%. But it will remain at 5%.

Oh, well that's just fucking stupid. 100% reduced, with no other increases, should mean zero. If the combo with Romira's (etc) doesn't work, then what's the point of having it the way it is, instead of a "less" penalty? To be clear: I'd prefer it as 100% reduced, assuming it was a true 100% reduced... but if it's a bullshit 100% reduced, then a less penalty would be better.

Controlled Destruction is ridiculous, why is that gem a bis gem for my crit spell builds? I lose 5% crit chance for over 40% more damage? Imo as long as I am still using this gem on crit based spell builds its broken, whatever the downside is it has to stop me using it on a crit spell build.

This is also funny

"100% less critical multiplier"

crit all you want boys.

Peace,

-Boem-