Why does GGG hate auction houses?

I wish poe.trade would just shut down so all hell brakes lose, ggg doesn't allow mods to be created to make every bit of game convenient and more fun, for instance simple item comparison to have a better understanding of what compares better to what you already have and yet they based their game and rely on third party trade system, make the god damn AH, there are a small percentage of players who "enjoy" poe.trade system, all the rest are hating it and the so called "player interaction" bullshit, if you think players dont interact enough, which is completely false, then make new ways to interact in a fun way, not a fu**ed up trade by third party where my personally dont even talk, invite > hideout > trade > out.

*RANT OFF*

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MEL0N_L0RD wrote:

(solely based on the D3 fiasco).

Such statements always makes me giggle since:
1. Thousands of public games active;
2. Lots of communities with 4-5K ppls online at a time.
3. Never ever a poblem to get a group run going.
4. 30 million boxes sold.

Anyway back to the topic - i play both d3 and poe, each enjoyable in it's own unique way (and that's great).

Also i play Guild Wars 2 (from time to time) and it's business model is very similar to poe (pets, armor & weapon skins, inventory tabs etc.). I should mention that in past month i spent ~400$ on gw2 and zero on poe, becouse inconvinient trade keeps initiative in trying something new very low.

To further explain, such business model is based around ppls trying new things and preferably alterating between character (so for example you buy 3 set skins and 3 pets instead of one). This isn't happening partially becouse of trade limitation.

Another example (real one) is my efforts to buy midnnight bargain yestoday. Ingame welth wise i'm pretty mid tier - can afford 6L here and there, but not mirrorer item. So i went to poe.trade, searched sellers online, didn't try to barter and... it took me 2 hrs to finally find someone not afk/playing another league/offline (even being listed online on poe.trade) and buy that wand.

Now imagine how tedious is gearing an alt or buying items for speeding leveling progression when everyone's cba to do 1-2 chaos trade (that they would do with pleasure through AH since it doesn't take away their playing time), add there absence of account-wide progression and you'll see why there's low initiative in playing alts (and buying cosmetic stuff for them).

I totally understand all tryhards who's dedicating lots of time to the game, but there's enough content for those like:
- atziri
- top tier maps
- high end crafting
- trade (for no reason whatsoever)

Simple changes to crafting (adding masters to the game) went a long way towards improving gaming expirience of average players (press button, get average result instead of alting/regaling/etc. for eternity) and introducing better trade system would do even more. It can be done ingame or through poe web page, doesn't matter really.

Also the only objective reason to be against trade improvements (not like those against even state their reasons exept "blah blah will ruin blah garbage blah sky is falling") is making profit from current system aka riping of new players or dodging competition (both can be seen on a daily basis just screening trade chat).

Actually i'm giving GGG a big credit for how much efforts they invest into improving game, but current trade system indirectly hurts company pockets, average playerbase and benefits only ppls exploiting it.

The long story short: ppls spent money on f2p games when playing them is convinient, also the more convinient game is the more ppls play it. Atm trading is the most inconvinient part of this game.

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Fluffy_Puppies wrote:

I was actually speaking about the repeated lie that the AH ruined D3. What actually happened is that gold could be produced too easily and in too large a number while at the same time there weren't enough sinks to get it out of the economy. So it was worthless, like a Zimbabwe Dollar. That was the cause of the hyperinflation in D3, not the presence of an AH.

However the RWAH did exacerbate the problem, because it rewarded gold farmers. The RWAH definitely did contribute to the hyper inflation of D3. But this is besides the point, it had nothing to do with the presence of a regular AH. The people saying otherwise are just being irrationally afraid because frankly they don't understand economics.

I thought that concern about the decrease in price of their valued top tier items isn't well-founded either. Observation of AH in other game economies seem to show the price of such high valued items increase rather than decrease. There are less supply than the number of people who want them. In fact the competition for such items would be more substantial.

The concern people should be worried about is the decrease in the price of low and mid tier items. I mean people only use limited number of equips. What do you do when people keep producing them and they aren't really consumed? There would be an oversupply and not enough demand for them. We don't have to deal with inflation but we have to deal with an oversupply of low and mid tier items that people don't want. People could vendor them but people wouldn't be happy earning minimal wages.

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Wye2491 wrote:

I wish poe.trade would just shut down so all hell brakes lose, ggg doesn't allow mods to be created to make every bit of game convenient and more fun, for instance simple item comparison to have a better understanding of what compares better to what you already have and yet they based their game and rely on third party trade system, make the god damn AH, there are a small percentage of players who "enjoy" poe.trade system, all the rest are hating it and the so called "player interaction" bullshit, if you think players dont interact enough, which is completely false, then make new ways to interact in a fun way, not a fu**ed up trade by third party where my personally dont even talk, invite > hideout > trade > out.

*RANT OFF*

Sorry for off-topic, de-rail post, but that is some kind of next level, big-ass sentence you've wrote there... XD Try to read it on one breath... its fucking hilarious. XD

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Minara213 wrote:

I'm sure people already said as much, but because an AH has a negative influence on the game... The instant I heard about the AH in Diablo 3 I knew it was going to be a disaster. And it was. Because if you increase the ease of trade, lots of people that never would have been doing it before, now start doing so. It effectively increases the pool and accessibility of items drastically compared to when there is no AH. So to keep items maintaining rarity, they had to make drop rates utterly abysmal. Which made playing the game feel terrible, as you could play hours and hours and hours and never find a single thing that got you even remotely excited.

This is one of those things where inconvenience is healthy for the game. With no auction house you have two choices. 1) Just play the darn game and try and find one yourself. 2) Go through the footwork and headache of tracking one down and trading. Either way, that effort is relatively large. And that effort gives the items added value. And it makes playing the darn game still feel like an attractive option. Which is ALWAYS what you want. When you make one of the two options infinitely easier and more convenient, you are shooting your game in the foot via path of least resistance. I have two choices. Play the darn game and try to find one myself. Or take 60 seconds looking at an AH screen. Yay. Way to completely devalue the experience of playing the game.

I know most who want an AH will never see the reasoning in this though. It's not a clear cut and easy to see matter, and in some ways it feels very backwards. But I am entirely certain that if an AH came to PoE it would hurt it, not help it. I don't want an arpg that is an auction house simulator. I want one where I go monster smashing for loot.

TLDR: inconvenience creates scarcity so that GGG doesn't have to. If they had to, the game would be far less fun to play because it would be so ridiculously hard to ever find something exciting outside of an auction house screen.

why people are still posting after this ? Everything has been said here, /thread.

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Malone wrote:

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Minara213 wrote:

I'm sure people already said as much, but because an AH has a negative influence on the game... The instant I heard about the AH in Diablo 3 I knew it was going to be a disaster. And it was. Because if you increase the ease of trade, lots of people that never would have been doing it before, now start doing so. It effectively increases the pool and accessibility of items drastically compared to when there is no AH. So to keep items maintaining rarity, they had to make drop rates utterly abysmal. Which made playing the game feel terrible, as you could play hours and hours and hours and never find a single thing that got you even remotely excited.

This is one of those things where inconvenience is healthy for the game. With no auction house you have two choices. 1) Just play the darn game and try and find one yourself. 2) Go through the footwork and headache of tracking one down and trading. Either way, that effort is relatively large. And that effort gives the items added value. And it makes playing the darn game still feel like an attractive option. Which is ALWAYS what you want. When you make one of the two options infinitely easier and more convenient, you are shooting your game in the foot via path of least resistance. I have two choices. Play the darn game and try to find one myself. Or take 60 seconds looking at an AH screen. Yay. Way to completely devalue the experience of playing the game.

I know most who want an AH will never see the reasoning in this though. It's not a clear cut and easy to see matter, and in some ways it feels very backwards. But I am entirely certain that if an AH came to PoE it would hurt it, not help it. I don't want an arpg that is an auction house simulator. I want one where I go monster smashing for loot.

TLDR: inconvenience creates scarcity so that GGG doesn't have to. If they had to, the game would be far less fun to play because it would be so ridiculously hard to ever find something exciting outside of an auction house screen.

why people are still posting after this ? Everything has been said here, /thread.

Because he didn't make a single valid point in that post /unthread.

Arguing in favor of inconvenience for fear that items will devalued, when devalued items are a good thing for buyers. They won't ever become truly worthless either, because then they wouldn't get posted on an AH to begin with.

His argument that items should be found is also fallacious on multiple levels. First off the self-found playstyle is not how PoE is designed to be played AH or not. Second off you can't just buy any item from an AH just how you can't buy any item off of poe.trade now. You farm items, sell said items, and use the currency to buy other items you actually need. That is how PoE is designed to be played. There being an AH or not doesn't change that.

Seriously if people in support of a self-found system are the ones that have a problem with an AH, please please STFU and go play a different game. This is not a SF vs trading thread, it is a trading via third party software and trading via in game platform thread. Arguing against an AH because you want PoE to be a self-found game is just a bad joke.

GGG hate acution house because if there was an auction house the drop rates would have to be lowered even further, ruining the game for self found players.

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Sickness wrote:

GGG hate acution house because if there was an auction house the drop rates would have to be lowered even further, ruining the game for self found players.

No they wouldn't.

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Fluffy_Puppies wrote:

No they wouldn't.

Ofcourse they would. Faster trading = higher inflation. Economics 101.

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Fluffy_Puppies wrote:

Arguing in favor of inconvenience for fear that items will devalued, when devalued items are a good thing for buyers. They won't ever become truly worthless either, because then they wouldn't get posted on an AH to begin with.

I will have to disagree here. Devalued items are a good thing for buyers but a bad thing for sellers. I think it is overall beneficial because of the net saving in time to both party. The creation of an AH would exacerbate the existing problem of oversupply that I mention.

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His argument that items should be found is also fallacious on multiple levels. First off the self-found playstyle is not how PoE is designed to be played AH or not. Second off you can't just buy any item from an AH just how you can't buy any item off of poe.trade now. You farm items, sell said items, and use the currency to buy other items you actually need. That is how PoE is designed to be played. There being an AH or not doesn't change that.

POE is design with trading in mind however it isn't designed with an AH in mind. GGG delay or avoid having to deal with that oversupply problem by creating temporary leagues. It kinda work. I can't tell whether it is an ingenious or foolish decision.

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Sickness wrote:

GGG hate acution house because if there was an auction house the drop rates would have to be lowered even further, ruining the game for self found players.

You can have an auction house and higher drop rate. I don't see why they are mutually exclusive.