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Minara213 wrote:
I'm sure people already said as much, but because an AH has a negative influence on the game... The instant I heard about the AH in Diablo 3 I knew it was going to be a disaster. And it was. Because if you increase the ease of trade, lots of people that never would have been doing it before, now start doing so. It effectively increases the pool and accessibility of items drastically compared to when there is no AH. So to keep items maintaining rarity, they had to make drop rates utterly abysmal. Which made playing the game feel terrible, as you could play hours and hours and hours and never find a single thing that got you even remotely excited.
This is one of those things where inconvenience is healthy for the game. With no auction house you have two choices. 1) Just play the darn game and try and find one yourself. 2) Go through the footwork and headache of tracking one down and trading. Either way, that effort is relatively large. And that effort gives the items added value. And it makes playing the darn game still feel like an attractive option. Which is ALWAYS what you want. When you make one of the two options infinitely easier and more convenient, you are shooting your game in the foot via path of least resistance. I have two choices. Play the darn game and try to find one myself. Or take 60 seconds looking at an AH screen. Yay. Way to completely devalue the experience of playing the game.
I know most who want an AH will never see the reasoning in this though. It's not a clear cut and easy to see matter, and in some ways it feels very backwards. But I am entirely certain that if an AH came to PoE it would hurt it, not help it. I don't want an arpg that is an auction house simulator. I want one where I go monster smashing for loot.
TLDR: inconvenience creates scarcity so that GGG doesn't have to. If they had to, the game would be far less fun to play because it would be so ridiculously hard to ever find something exciting outside of an auction house screen.
Your entire comment is, "I don't like AH, so trust me, it'll be bad for players!" For fuck's sake, you even admit that trading is difficult and odious, then you steamroll the topic and explain that it ruined D3 somehow. News flash: D3 sucked because no one had any legendaries. The game became what it is now when they increased the drop rate dramatically so that we wouldn't need to trade. They buttressed this philosophy with Kanai's cube recently to facilitate crafting, removing the need for trading even more.
A lot of players hate the trading system as it is. You can hate the auction house all you want, but STOP telling us what's better and what we prefer. I don't want to work forever to cobble together ONE character worthy of late-game. I want to trade with other players, and the difficulty I should experience is the game itself.
We're forced to use poe.trade and Acquisition because GGG is dropping the ball massively.
Last edited by RegulusX#7690 on Dec 14, 2015, 4:24:15 PM
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Posted byRegulusX#7690on Dec 14, 2015, 4:22:59 PM
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GGG doesn't want you trading and they want their game dying. Because that is what is happening. ADD A FREAKING TRADING SYSTEM ALREADY GGG. Not some stupid website outside of this game.
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Elevory wrote:
An in-game alternative to poe.trade is my most-wanted feature. Ideally, I think it would resemble Runescape's Grand Exchange.
Fuck yes!
Keep PoE2 Difficult.
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Minara213 wrote:
I'm sure people already said as much, but because an AH has a negative influence on the game... The instant I heard about the AH in Diablo 3 I knew it was going to be a disaster. And it was. Because if you increase the ease of trade, lots of people that never would have been doing it before, now start doing so. It effectively increases the pool and accessibility of items drastically compared to when there is no AH. So to keep items maintaining rarity, they had to make drop rates utterly abysmal. Which made playing the game feel terrible, as you could play hours and hours and hours and never find a single thing that got you even remotely excited.
This is one of those things where inconvenience is healthy for the game. With no auction house you have two choices. 1) Just play the darn game and try and find one yourself. 2) Go through the footwork and headache of tracking one down and trading. Either way, that effort is relatively large. And that effort gives the items added value. And it makes playing the darn game still feel like an attractive option. Which is ALWAYS what you want. When you make one of the two options infinitely easier and more convenient, you are shooting your game in the foot via path of least resistance. I have two choices. Play the darn game and try to find one myself. Or take 60 seconds looking at an AH screen. Yay. Way to completely devalue the experience of playing the game.
I know most who want an AH will never see the reasoning in this though. It's not a clear cut and easy to see matter, and in some ways it feels very backwards. But I am entirely certain that if an AH came to PoE it would hurt it, not help it. I don't want an arpg that is an auction house simulator. I want one where I go monster smashing for loot.
TLDR: inconvenience creates scarcity so that GGG doesn't have to. If they had to, the game would be far less fun to play because it would be so ridiculously hard to ever find something exciting outside of an auction house screen.
Except for drop rates and such are designed with trade in mind.
Finding items on poe.trade is very easy and very convenient, and adding AH to the actual game, instead of having to alt+tab would only make it less of a hassle for people who's PC can't handle alt+tabing well... and that is it! (not saying here that I want automatic AH, because I don't - but I had it explained in my other posts).
About the "paths": These two paths you've created are actually one, which both are "playing the game". I don't know why people keep on separating these two... It goes like this:
1) You play the game, grind stuff, kill monsters
2) You find some stuff you can use, you find some stuff of value that you cannot use
3) You sell stuff of value and get (exchange, so there is finite resource here) stuff you can use
There is no point where these two go separate ways. Sure, you can ignore things of value that you cannot use and say "I won't be trading! cuz of reasons!", but this is not "another path" that was intended by game design - you created it. And given that you created it on your own, you can't expect GGG to change their game according to your own play style.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. Last edited by Perq#4049 on Dec 15, 2015, 8:14:13 AM
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Posted byPerq#4049on Dec 15, 2015, 8:00:51 AM
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After 10 years of continuously playing D2 I stopped playing ARPGs shortly after D3, in large part due to the AH. Because of this I missed 2+ years of POE, which sucks. That being said, if AH comes to POE it'll be dead to me like D3 (and to a large extent Blizz) is now dead to me (solely based on the D3 fiasco).
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Posted byMEL0N_L0RD#2898on Dec 16, 2015, 10:45:28 PM
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As I get older I am starting to notice that the majority of people base their views on gut feelings and are unmoved by facts, statistics, and reasoning in general. In short, most people are irrational. ("AH bad! It ruined D3, don't tell me the actual reasons it happened! AH bad!")
Now I really wish I knew how to harness the irrationality of the masses and direct it at things for my own personal gain. If I could do that I have the feeling I would be set for life.
Maybe I should become a pastor of a mega church...
Keep PoE2 Difficult.
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Posted byFluffy_Puppies#3904on Dec 17, 2015, 12:14:15 AM
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Fluffy_Puppies wrote:
Now I really wish I knew how to harness the irrationality of the masses and direct it at things for my own personal gain. If I could do that I have the feeling I would be set for life.
Maybe I should become a pastor of a mega church...
The secret of this is to understand the true nature of the relationship. The cult leader is not harnessing the irrationality of the masses for his own personal gain; he is harnessing himself to the irrationality of the masses, in exchange for personal gain. He doesn't argue or dictate, he accepts and then obeys... and in return for this, he is rewarded.
I mean, seriously, which came first: the irrational suspicion that immigrants are all criminals, or Donald Trump?
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Dec 17, 2015, 12:58:47 AM
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Posted byScrotieMcB#2697on Dec 17, 2015, 12:58:00 AM
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Fluffy_Puppies wrote:
As I get older I am starting to notice that the majority of people base their views on gut feelings and are unmoved by facts, statistics, and reasoning in general. In short, most people are irrational. ("AH bad! It ruined D3, don't tell me the actual reasons it happened! AH bad!")
Now I really wish I knew how to harness the irrationality of the masses and direct it at things for my own personal gain. If I could do that I have the feeling I would be set for life.
Maybe I should become a pastor of a mega church...
I wouldn't call it irrational. It is rather a conflict of interest. Some players want a better trade system and increase the availability of items, it save time selling or buying item.
Some players want the scarcity of items. It reduce item supply and increase items prices.
Yes you gain more value per unit of item sold. Although I don't see how it is really overall more beneficial, since you sacrifice more time trading rather than farming for more items. Those gain in value would only be much more beneficial if you sell high valued items. In other word, it is only worth the time if you sell high valued items.
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Posted bydeathflower#0444on Dec 17, 2015, 2:11:21 AM
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Fluffy_Puppies wrote:
As I get older I am starting to notice that the majority of people base their views on gut feelings and are unmoved by facts, statistics, and reasoning in general. In short, most people are irrational. ("AH bad! It ruined D3, don't tell me the actual reasons it happened! AH bad!")
Now I really wish I knew how to harness the irrationality of the masses and direct it at things for my own personal gain. If I could do that I have the feeling I would be set for life.
Maybe I should become a pastor of a mega church...
So much this.
I mean, we can't have constructive discussion, when all we MOSTLY hear are two sentences:
1) We need AH, cuz I can't trade quick enough, and tedious. And I'm lazy. Gieb AH! >:(
2) No, no, AH sucks, cuz D3, did not work, don't do anything! :<
When will people learn that truth lays somewhere in between...? I mean, I've read maybe 2-3 posts that did some research with critical, rational and objective analysis, instead of repeating one and the same thing, like a fucking mantra.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. Last edited by Perq#4049 on Dec 17, 2015, 2:41:58 AM
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Posted byPerq#4049on Dec 17, 2015, 2:38:22 AM
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deathflower wrote:
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Fluffy_Puppies wrote:
As I get older I am starting to notice that the majority of people base their views on gut feelings and are unmoved by facts, statistics, and reasoning in general. In short, most people are irrational. ("AH bad! It ruined D3, don't tell me the actual reasons it happened! AH bad!")
Now I really wish I knew how to harness the irrationality of the masses and direct it at things for my own personal gain. If I could do that I have the feeling I would be set for life.
Maybe I should become a pastor of a mega church...
I wouldn't call it irrational. It is rather a conflict of interest. Some players want a better trade system and increase the availability of items, it save time selling or buying item.
Some players want the scarcity of items. It reduce item supply and increase items prices.
Yes you gain more value per unit of item sold. Although I don't see how it is really overall more beneficial, since you sacrifice more time trading rather than farming for more items. Those gain in value would only be much more beneficial if you sell high valued items. In other word, it is only worth the time if you sell high valued items.
I was actually speaking about the repeated lie that the AH ruined D3. What actually happened is that gold could be produced too easily and in too large a number while at the same time there weren't enough sinks to get it out of the economy. So it was worthless, like a Zimbabwe Dollar. That was the cause of the hyperinflation in D3, not the presence of an AH.
However the RWAH did exacerbate the problem, because it rewarded gold farmers. The RWAH definitely did contribute to the hyper inflation of D3. But this is besides the point, it had nothing to do with the presence of a regular AH. The people saying otherwise are just being irrationally afraid because frankly they don't understand economics.
Keep PoE2 Difficult.
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