Deadeye Keystone Nodes should be more generic

Ok now I am confused. So LS pierce and Ice Spear pierce also give them an arrow pierce property? Or is it pierce specific to the skill so the keystone would not apply?

tl;dr should be "do spells receive the crit% in that initial pierce phase?"

:)

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here, but supporting Fireball with the Pierce support does increase the pierce chance, and therefore the arrow pierce chance, of the Fireball skill.
Fireball doesn't usually make any use of the arrow pierce chance, but Drillneck and Powerful Precision let use that stat to affect it.

So what you're trying to say is that all Pierce is also Arrow Pierce, but not all Arrow Pierce is generic Pierce (i.e. won't have spells pierce and so on) so by having the node affected by Arrow Pierce is it better in all circumstances.

"

Ceryneian wrote:

Ok now I am confused. So LS pierce and Ice Spear pierce also give them an arrow pierce property? Or is it pierce specific to the skill so the keystone would not apply?

Mark is saying that every skill already has an arrow pierce property. PA, EA, Fireball, Ice Spear, Lightning Strike, even stuff like, oh I don't know, Cyclone, which would never ordinarily care about it. Mark is also saying that arrow pierce = generic pierce chance + arrow specific pierce chance, which is always equal to generic pierce chance because the game currently has no sources of arrow-specific pierce chance.

The upshot is that whenever you see "arrow pierce chance", on Drillneck or this keystone or anything else, you can substitute in your head "pierce chance with any projectile" and it'll pretty much work out to be the same thing.

This is very interesting technical information on game mechanics that I had no idea about... So basically all your skills have all your stats at any given time? Say, my Split Arrow will have the property of +x% increased Physical Damage with Swords if I get this stat somewhere (tree or gear). But it won't "care" about this stat because the skill is not performed with a sword. If there's ever a way to fire a Split Arrow with a sword (kinda crazy, I know, but this is just an example to illustrate), Split Arrow will automatically "see" or "care" about that stat and then benefit from it.

From a design perspective I guess it makes a lot of sense and allows you guys to come up with crazy new mechanics because the game will automatically support them.

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

Char1983 wrote:

Cause it only increases the Fireball pierce chance, but the Pierce gem generally increases pierce chance, so also arrow pierce chance, however, supporting Fireball, it obviously does not increase arrow pierce chance...

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here, but supporting Fireball with the Pierce support does increase the pierce chance, and therefore the arrow pierce chance, of the Fireball skill.
Fireball doesn't usually make any use of the arrow pierce chance, but Drillneck and Powerful Precision let use that stat to affect it.

What I am trying to say is that it is a bit convoluted and hard to understand. So my Fireball has more arrow pierce chance when I support it with Pierce. I would not have known that before reading this thread. From reading this thread, it seems like I am not the only one who is confused ;).

BTW, this means that Infractem would also work and increase the Fireball crit chance, right? Not that it makes a lot of sense, but still.

Another question, what about skills that have 100% pierce? Like, Freezing Pulse for example? Will those get the bonus as well? Is their built-in pierce also arrow pierce? What about Ice Spear, that has 100% pierce chance at close range but doesn't pierce at longer ranges?

Thanks Mark and others. This is confusing as hell but I get why you did it like that.

Yes Char skills with in-built pierce like FP, LS, IS will get the bonus because they all have an arrow pierce property, and since pierce is a subset of arrow pierce, all the skill's generic pierce values will apply to its arrow pierce property.

Can someone clarify for me if using Projectile Weakness bonus will benefit from the keystone?

ya your character will have an arrow pierce change regardless of having a bow or quiver right? All your generic pierce chance is adding to your arrow pierce chance which is just a theoretical stat everyone has.

Freeze Pulse will get the bonus if you have pierce change greater than 0%, but it wont automatically get 100% from naturally having 100% pierce I dont think. It doesnt technically have an in built pierce chance %, it simply automatically pierces? It doesnt say anywhere on a pulse gem that it pierces to my knowledge, it simply behaves that way as a moving aoe. Thats how I presume it works but mark will no doubt give us the proper answer. Ice Spear I dunno, it actually says it pierces close enemies, it uses the word but it never quotes a % pierce chance, less sure but I would presume once again that it simply functions that way but will not give a bonus based on a pierce chance % because it has none unless you support it or take passives that give the entire projectile a % pierce chance that applies to all its stages.






I can understand farshot being attack restricted, but something like powerful precision + fast and deadly + ricochet could be cool for an ek build which is a spell yes but a dex/int hybrid physical spell. Sharp an venomous could be cool too, is there really a need to have attack speed tied in with some of these nodes and the pathing? I feel like its just that tiny edge over the restrictive line where it would be more fun if it was purely physical and projectile stats with no attack specifics involved, leaving ek and the new (presumably dex hybrid?) physical spells an efficient option there too.

Thanks Mark for the clarifications! I guess there is a case for restricting Far Shot to Attacks (pre-nerf Crown of Eyes comes to mind), though I would suggest that simply going Deadeye Ranger gives up enough (in terms of opportunity cost) that having it affect Spells may still be balanced.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Freeze Pulse will get the bonus if you have pierce change greater than 0%, but it wont automatically get 100% from naturally having 100% pierce I dont think.

It should actually get the bonus... IIRC Freezing Pulse currently gets the damage bonus from Drillneck.