Exp loss due to death's - Must read (Suggestion)

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goetzjam wrote:

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godace wrote:

Should i stop and delete my character every time get tedious/bored? didn't got your point.

What you means "recover exp"? The time don't stop for everyone, and if you are in a race, 1h without getting exp becomes a big difference if you sum all of your deaths. If you want to say "you can still farm", comon everyone can farm without care about exp, just hit 0% and farm till you die.

No I'm saying if you find it boring to play the character, why on earth would you continue to play that same character. No need to delete just play something you enjoy.


In a race, are you freaking serious? Even the ladder isn't a race in temp leagues, very little incentive to actually do so. In regards to only you waiting, what? You have no idea what you are even saying do you?

The penalty is just a soft penalty if one at all, if you aren't losing anything, except for the ability to gain for a short amount of time then you aren't actually losing anything are you?


Please stop with the stupid fucking ideas, think of something, think of the flaws and downsides before posting. Stop wasting your time, my time and possibly GGG's time for reading the "new ideas" that have been posted in every single XP loss thread ever.

Do you have some problem buddy? Are you getting... Bored? :D

We continue to play on same character... to win prizes? to win challenges? to win races? after all... the level is actually the most important in the overall. Everyone are playing cuz they enjoy the character, but SOMETIMES it get boring and ONE things that make it happens is because penalty.

And comon, are you saying our ideas are bad? What about make your post with your ideas? it's better than saying ppl they have "stupid fucking ideas". And, we are not losing our time.

One way it could be done:

How to fix death penalty:

Upon death, your next 10% xp is gained at a 50% reduction. It shows up like rested XP and does not stack beyond 10%.

I hate the penalty. Nothing like death at level 93+ or so to make you rage quit and question why you're spending your life grinding incessantly in a fictional world with such a large time/fun ratio. I also hate the new map system.

i now thank ggg because the exp loss on death has helped me move on from my poe addiction :)

if there was no exp loss id probably still be trying to get level 100 but after level 90 poe is not the game for me because i end up salty and start hating poe when i lose exp and there is no sense of progression because die too much and waste orbs/time getting nowhere.

some good suggestions in this thread but i don't think ggg will ever change the exp loss on death sadly.

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goetzjam wrote:

@Crackmonster

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That's because you have a reading comprehension issue then.

Yep clearly starting off with an insult is the best way to prove your point.

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It is demotivating. It destroys only - for no gain. The people who have issues with dying will never compete for the number 1 spot. In essence it serves no purpose only destroys the game for tons of people.

The XP penalty isn't about keeping people reaching level 100 so the ladder can be competitive, its there for the reasons I listed above which is to give a consequence for death. Because death has a consequence you must choose your actions based on such.

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ARPG have hardcore mode for the epeen people and those who really wanna see who the best is, and softcore mode for those who just want to have fun. Do the math on that.

Do the math on this, this game isn't a traditional setup where HC is for the elite and SC is for those that want no consequences, you and others are arguing it should be, I'm arguing as it shouldn't be because this is the design on the game.

Hardcore in poe is for those players that want to build a character that only lives once. Standard was created or designed in poe as a non-perma death league, not as a "softcore" environment. Its a crucial difference here and one you and others are not understanding. By having a league that is "i dont have to care about consequences" you are suggesting that you should be allowed to play the game in a way the game was never designed to be played as, similar to self found (although self found isn't suggesting the way others are playing the game)

If you cannot have fun with the XP penalty in SC then this simply is the wrong game for you, by not having a penalty the same choices HC players make for mods, challenges, ect you aren't playing the game GGG wants you to play, you are wanting to play some dumb down version of it because you are afraid to make decisions or choices and live with them.

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Furthermore it's form is bad where it's okay below level 90, and 90+ it becomes outrageously balanced.

It allows for you to get acquainted with the game and your character, after 85 I'd say that character should be complete, not many builds really rely on higher level characters to work. So by the time you reach that level you should have mastered the playstyle and know what your character can and cannot handle. The highest level content in this game is 82, while your character is 90, shouldn't your character, being 8+ levels over the content have a better chance at living then one the same level? Therefore its more punishing when you should be better prepared.

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It interacts with the xp gain penalties and huge costs of maintaining high maps in a way that leads to a deadly combo of ragequit's - again for no gain, these people will never compete for first spot.

I care not if players quit because of the penalty, if you use this as an argument, then what if I say i'll quit if GGG makes this game more casual, seeing as I'm a supporter of the game (a rather large one 1k+) I think loosing me is probably worth 100 casual players, you do the math there.

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It destroys builds, that again will never compete for first spots, but are plain out destroyed in terms of fun - again for no gain.

How about people that just want to have fun just level to 90-92 and give a shit less about XP gain, the reason why they won't is because in standard no progress is achieved in items because of the "crap economy" that makes it almost impossible for new players to even understand.

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These are just some of the simple arguments. Have you ever actually considered that this form of death penalty add's nothing to the game but destroys it for some people?

Have you ever considered that all of these arguments have been made before and discussed by others as well? Have you ever considered that I listed why as a design feature the XP penalty exists? Have you ever considered that this game wasn't meant to be causal and if players are not willing to live with the consequences and the penalty they don't deserve to have the game catered to them.

Please stop with your comments that are nothing but the usual repeat that every single "casual" player uses. We won't need to homogenize poe, the game wasn't founded and supported by players like myself to have it changed into a completely off the core principle of a hardcore ARPG.

o/ Casual Softcore player here, about 600 dollars in MTX invested and 358 hours, considering boycotting 3.0 if xp loss remains! Your investment doesnt make you quitting any more or less impactful than mine, therefore irrelevant to the discussion. IE You are nowhere near worth 600 of me :).

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goetzjam wrote:

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MrTremere wrote:

Our complaints about the experience penalty upon character death being too frustrating are legitimate, and it is particularly annoying to see that people wouldn't even acknowledge that.

I've never seen a legitimate argument presented by the people that want it reduced, before lockstep and massive improvements in predictive mode people used the desync as an excuse, what is left now? Less defensive options?

The simple fact of the matter is it wasn't that long ago that GGG, Chris specifically said the penalty was fine.

If death wasn't "punishing" or was "meaningless" then we are essentially playing the same ARPG that any other game can put out, just looks different and has things like links\skillgems. Honestly out of everything people can argue to change about the game this seems like the most insignificant and the largest "complaint" that will likely have no changes. But I'm always open to hear a good argument on to why the people that want it reduced or removed are for such a change. As a SC player turned HC (out of necessity really as the SC economy is terrible in comparison) I don't think people honestly should die that often, if they do they are playing recklessly and should indeed be punished, that or they don't have a good enough understanding to make a build of their own and cannot simply follow the instructions from the 100's of builds on the class forums.

I already wrote few times about death penalty being bag of nonsense, nobody got balls to write back to my threads anyway. People here lack arguments to really discuss anything, they also lack knowledge about psychological aspect of players.

Death penalty have no point in existing.
It doesnt make things harder, it make you copy-paste overpowered build in most cases. It makes you use game breaking tactics and mechanics. Thats nothing special, that is not requiring any skill from the player except for reading a forum/guide/watching streamer giving you advices.

POE is literaly no-skill game or at most 1-time-skill. All you need to do here, to do any hard work is creating build once (mostly copy-pasting it) and then you dont need any skil anymore.
To create good build from scratch you need to be logical thinker, thats around only 5-10% of human population depending on country. So you wanna limit this game for such small playerbase? Or you just give me proof that most people are copy-pasting builds anyway? I would rather go for the second since everybody cry like a kid when GGG nerf some popular item/stat.
There is no twitch skill, there is no focus on positioning or using of enviroment, teamplay is invisible, decision making on the run aswell. Investing time like no-lifer is also not a player skill. People here want to be praised for nothing (like in most cases, because we live in times where everybody is a winner afterall).

For the second point - it limit what this game was supposed to be - build diversity fun.
If people bother about losing 2 hours then they wont create fun and/or risky builds. They wont even bother to invet anything new because in most cases it will not be bulletproof (since it wont run on gamebreaking mechanic like most endgame builds do). People wont have fun by build diversity, then they will simply quit the game.

Another similar aspect. If people are afraid of challanging and risky stuff, with in my opinion is MOST FUN in any game, then this game have no point in existing on long run. Games are supposed to be challanging. If you are not dying every 1 hour in a game then it means this game is super easy. Even if you are pro, you are supposed to die in games, get your butt kicked. Thats the fun of a game, to win 1 out of few fights/stages etc.
In POE people run OP builds and are braging about not dying - it means this game is easy not hard. Hard game wouldnt look at your build so much, would still squish you if you are bad player, skill wise.

Also loosing 2 hours of exp is just pissing people off, especialy in game where you can get 1 shot even if you are using gamebreaking build. This game is made under lifeleech - where most games already removed it. GGG is behind "what shouldnt be here" by around 5-10 years. They are now happy about removing difficulty levels in 3.0 and say that "no aRPG ever did it", diablo3 did it like a year ago. They are like living in different world i think.
Perma crowd control, perma teleport abilities, super lifeleech - most good games already fixed those problems.

Anyway getting back at topic. The other reason of death penalty not making any sense is also simple. In most cases people die to things that have after-death effect. We fight versus dead enemies rather than alive ones. That means this game have gigantic problem in fighting mechanics, monaster AI and anything linked to it. There is no challange in living enemies or the risk is limited to bosses in most cases.

I invite anyone to rhytmic games on insane difficulty, bullet hell games on highest difficulties or simple FPS games like battlefield. Go try them, then come back and tell me "POE is hardcore game". Because in the game types that I mentioned you often wonder "how it is possible to complete" or "Its freaking insanane" or "will I ever be able to do it?" not like POE " what build i gotta copy-paste to kill shaper?".

Though like I wrote, its hard to discuss with people that are not posting arguments, have no expriance as a player or played just few games. The most ironic is, people like that are the ones that cant think logicaly (look up) so they are unable to play this game well without outside help.


@how to fix death penalty

Simply remove it and actualy make the game harder. Make monsters AI better, make fights longer, make positioning matter, funnier teamplay, usage of enviroment, make people do fast decision. If monsters vanish in one click then we dont fight, we just run around.

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herflik wrote:

@how to fix death penalty

Simply remove it and actualy make the game harder. Make monsters AI better, make fights longer, make positioning matter, funnier teamplay, usage of enviroment, make people do fast decision. If monsters vanish in one click then we dont fight, we just run around.

None of those things matter if you can die and lose nothing, thats what you seem to be missing....