Also, if you lost ALL the xp from a map, what if a player in their 70s was running tier 6-8 maps, got like 25-30% xp, and then lost it all? And a player 90+ should only lose 0.5-1%? All this does is make death way less punishing for high level chars, and way more punishing for those that are still gaining decent xp from maps.
A big giant -1. Oh hell you can even have a -2 as well.
XP penalty is just fine as it is.
both low and higher level have lost the SAME EXP/H. to clear 1 map is like 5-10min to both lower ou higher level player. So, if you lose 20% exp from level 70, no one cares, it's 5min go back that. 20% of level 70 is same or even less than 1% from lv 95. Stop being weak and try to get 100.
For me it's the most fair solution:
Lose all exp from that map is you die. or maybe 5 maps.
And yes, i like the death penalty because encourage players to be even better and research the game, plus the fact It is more challenging. But i have to say, after lv 95 how it was said, it's like lot's of currency lost.
Another Possible solution:
Maybe if we lose 10% exp and don't lose that currency/maps?
"most fair solution"
Life isn't fair so why should death be fair?
You people don't realize that wareclast is designed to be punishing and dark, not like D3 where they literally have rainbows and unicorns.
5 maps would be at most like 5% I believe after the changes, although I'm not entirely sure on this I don't have the exact data to prove this. So how exactly would this be different then just 1/2 the current penalty. What about outside the maps. You guys make suggestions that just have holes in them and expect someone else to fill them in, I mean why bother suggesting a 1/2 assed solution to a "problem"?
What are you talking about if we lost 10% we don't lose currency\maps?
As i said, i really like the "unfair" of death penalty, but, as said before, after 95ish it takes like like 4-8hs of boring and tedious play to get it back, that's why most ppl(i'm one) just give up that character and make another one or just wait next league comes up.
A perfect idea sometimes take time to become perfect, that's why sometimes it has holes.
So, another suggestion could be: a timer. you won't get exp by like 15min after die. And take off exp penalty
"
What are you talking about if we lost 10% we don't lose currency\maps?
Ok, i'll try to fill this "hole". Make a change on zana, at lv7(not 8 because on new leagues can take 1month to get lv8) she gains an ability to give you the same map that you was doing if you die on it. You can get that map once per day, and if you are in party, it will work only if all die and can be taken only by the party leader.
And it will work only if you lose at least 10% exp
plus: this way don't interfere nothing on HC leagues.
Sry about poor english.
Last edited by godace#3463 on Oct 16, 2015, 10:29:14 AM
As i said, i really like the "unfair" of death penalty, but, as said before, after 95ish it takes like like 4-8hs of boring and tedious play to get it back, that's why most ppl(i'm one) just give up that character and make another one or just wait next league comes up.
A perfect idea sometimes take time to become perfect, that's why sometimes it has holes.
So, another suggestion could be: a timer. you won't get exp by like 15min after die. And take off exp penalty
"
What are you talking about if we lost 10% we don't lose currency\maps?
Ok, i'll try to fill this "hole". Make a change on zana, at lv7(not 8 because on new leagues can take 1month to get lv8) she gains an ability to give you the same map that you was doing if you die on it. You can get that map once per day, and if you are in party, it will work only if all die and can be taken only by the party leader.
And it will work only if you lose at least 10% exp
plus: this way don't interfere nothing on HC leagues.
Sry about poor english.
"
tedious play
If you feel its that unfun then why do it?
LOL "a perfect idea sometimes take time" you realize that that suggestion has been mentioned before, that flaw has been pointed out before. Lets continue to review another suggestion which has already been shut down, timer.
Any timer based penalty actually does the opposite that you think it will. Its quite easy to avoid playing or play in a safer zone while you "recover" your XP, not to mention it actually fails to address the core principle behind the XP penalty on death.
The zana thing is an overly complicated change for no reason, after the latest map drop changes the cost of mapping, especially in a party is significantly lower, why on earth shouldn't you be punished on death in a party based system? Like you have the ability to have a dedicated support character (means more curses, chilled ground, reverse knockback, aurabot, ect) you have the ability to communicate and take less damage (as enemies have more things to target) you have the ability to play with SRS meat shields or other forms of mitigation. The punishment of "losing" the map if you die in a full party is the only thing that keeps party play vs solo play really in check, its almost always better to play in a party then solo because of the forementioned benefits, why on earth should it literally be better to play in a party in every single way?
So eager to address stuff that doesn't really matter and won't change. While GGG changed on this topic and reduced it once in the past the likelyhood of reducing or changing this again is probably as high as everyone that has replied to this thread getting a mirror to drop.
yes my actual highest char is 87, so what? am i not elite enough for you communicate my opinion about this subject?
no it just explains why you dont cry about the penalty dude. get 95, come back and still say the penalty is fine. ty.
at 87 you run 2 maps and the penalty is gone. at 95 you play a whole casual day.
And I'll once again point out that my character list is very likely more impressive than yours (keeping your characters private while mocking others' is pretty weaksauce, btw) and I fully agree with the death penalty.
I think a majority of very high levels would actually agree with the death penalty if you had any accurate way to poll them. It's nice to know that my time leveling has been spent working smarter, not harder.
LOL "a perfect idea sometimes take time" you realize that that suggestion has been mentioned before, that flaw has been pointed out before. Lets continue to review another suggestion which has already been shut down, timer.
Any timer based penalty actually does the opposite that you think it will. Its quite easy to avoid playing or play in a safer zone while you "recover" your XP, not to mention it actually fails to address the core principle behind the XP penalty on death.
The zana thing is an overly complicated change for no reason, after the latest map drop changes the cost of mapping, especially in a party is significantly lower, why on earth shouldn't you be punished on death in a party based system? Like you have the ability to have a dedicated support character (means more curses, chilled ground, reverse knockback, aurabot, ect) you have the ability to communicate and take less damage (as enemies have more things to target) you have the ability to play with SRS meat shields or other forms of mitigation. The punishment of "losing" the map if you die in a full party is the only thing that keeps party play vs solo play really in check, its almost always better to play in a party then solo because of the forementioned benefits, why on earth should it literally be better to play in a party in every single way?
So eager to address stuff that doesn't really matter and won't change. While GGG changed on this topic and reduced it once in the past the likelyhood of reducing or changing this again is probably as high as everyone that has replied to this thread getting a mirror to drop.
Should i stop and delete my character every time get tedious/bored? didn't got your point.
What you means "recover exp"? The time don't stop for everyone, and if you are in a race, 1h without getting exp becomes a big difference if you sum all of your deaths. If you want to say "you can still farm", comon everyone can farm without care about exp, just hit 0% and farm till you die.
Last edited by godace#3463 on Oct 16, 2015, 12:15:50 PM
That's because you have a reading comprehension issue then.
Yep clearly starting off with an insult is the best way to prove your point.
"
It is demotivating. It destroys only - for no gain. The people who have issues with dying will never compete for the number 1 spot. In essence it serves no purpose only destroys the game for tons of people.
The XP penalty isn't about keeping people reaching level 100 so the ladder can be competitive, its there for the reasons I listed above which is to give a consequence for death. Because death has a consequence you must choose your actions based on such.
"
ARPG have hardcore mode for the epeen people and those who really wanna see who the best is, and softcore mode for those who just want to have fun. Do the math on that.
Do the math on this, this game isn't a traditional setup where HC is for the elite and SC is for those that want no consequences, you and others are arguing it should be, I'm arguing as it shouldn't be because this is the design on the game.
Hardcore in poe is for those players that want to build a character that only lives once. Standard was created or designed in poe as a non-perma death league, not as a "softcore" environment. Its a crucial difference here and one you and others are not understanding. By having a league that is "i dont have to care about consequences" you are suggesting that you should be allowed to play the game in a way the game was never designed to be played as, similar to self found (although self found isn't suggesting the way others are playing the game)
If you cannot have fun with the XP penalty in SC then this simply is the wrong game for you, by not having a penalty the same choices HC players make for mods, challenges, ect you aren't playing the game GGG wants you to play, you are wanting to play some dumb down version of it because you are afraid to make decisions or choices and live with them.
"
Furthermore it's form is bad where it's okay below level 90, and 90+ it becomes outrageously balanced.
It allows for you to get acquainted with the game and your character, after 85 I'd say that character should be complete, not many builds really rely on higher level characters to work. So by the time you reach that level you should have mastered the playstyle and know what your character can and cannot handle. The highest level content in this game is 82, while your character is 90, shouldn't your character, being 8+ levels over the content have a better chance at living then one the same level? Therefore its more punishing when you should be better prepared.
"
It interacts with the xp gain penalties and huge costs of maintaining high maps in a way that leads to a deadly combo of ragequit's - again for no gain, these people will never compete for first spot.
I care not if players quit because of the penalty, if you use this as an argument, then what if I say i'll quit if GGG makes this game more casual, seeing as I'm a supporter of the game (a rather large one 1k+) I think loosing me is probably worth 100 casual players, you do the math there.
"
It destroys builds, that again will never compete for first spots, but are plain out destroyed in terms of fun - again for no gain.
How about people that just want to have fun just level to 90-92 and give a shit less about XP gain, the reason why they won't is because in standard no progress is achieved in items because of the "crap economy" that makes it almost impossible for new players to even understand.
"
These are just some of the simple arguments. Have you ever actually considered that this form of death penalty add's nothing to the game but destroys it for some people?
Have you ever considered that all of these arguments have been made before and discussed by others as well? Have you ever considered that I listed why as a design feature the XP penalty exists? Have you ever considered that this game wasn't meant to be causal and if players are not willing to live with the consequences and the penalty they don't deserve to have the game catered to them.
Please stop with your comments that are nothing but the usual repeat that every single "casual" player uses. We won't need to homogenize poe, the game wasn't founded and supported by players like myself to have it changed into a completely off the core principle of a hardcore ARPG.
I didn't mean to offend. I was being serious.
If you haven't read a good argument, and i know you've read a lot of the forums, then you have a reading comprehension issue. Is what it is.
I'll even guide you to where it is - conviction - it is the bane of individual judgement.
Leading you into cases now where you state as rebuttal to arguments - "I don't care", "i'm the bigger supporter so my meaning is more worth". No argument. This game has a small fraction of the potential arpg clientele. If you really wanna talk money tactics, mainstream always wins over quality of art. Luckily, i am for quality of game too, so don't try to take it there.
The other points are not counteracted either - you don't even address the core of the thing - that the amount of negative externalities far outweigh the gains - and i'll advance this argument 1 post from you by pointing you to the important point i distinguished:
"
Crackmonster wrote:
... this form of death penalty add's nothing to the game but destroys it for some people..
The embedded knowledge required to construct that sentence is that all(or at least the vast majority) of the positive gains from this death penalty can also remain with another death penalty system, without many of the negative aspects.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
Last edited by Crackmonster#7709 on Oct 16, 2015, 12:37:53 PM
Should i stop and delete my character every time get tedious/bored? didn't got your point.
What you means "recover exp"? The time don't stop for everyone, and if you are in a race, 1h without getting exp becomes a big difference if you sum all of your deaths. If you want to say "you can still farm", comon everyone can farm without care about exp, just hit 0% and farm till you die.
No I'm saying if you find it boring to play the character, why on earth would you continue to play that same character. No need to delete just play something you enjoy.
In a race, are you freaking serious? Even the ladder isn't a race in temp leagues, very little incentive to actually do so. In regards to only you waiting, what? [Removed by Support]
The penalty is just a soft penalty if one at all, if you aren't losing anything, except for the ability to gain for a short amount of time then you aren't actually losing anything are you?
[Removed by Support]
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan
Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
Last edited by Brian_GGG#0000 on Oct 16, 2015, 4:13:03 PM
[/quote]Even without xp penalty, it will still take A LOT of time for the average player to build just one character to 100.[/quote]
Why are you continuing to try if you are so frustrated? Why not go play another game? Are you having fun trying to get to lvl 100? If you were not having fun then just play some other game.
It doesn't matter how long i have been playing the game. I have played many other games with far more serious death penalties. I wouldn't have it any other way. The hard nature of this game is what drives you to play it. Its a challenge. That is why you like it! If it was easy you would be playing something else.
I said "the average player", not "I". Btw, you probably didn't read my two previous posts in this topic. I'm not against difficulty, I love beyond, I love all mods weekends in 1mth league, both this one and the previous one. But xp penalty != hard game. Because of xp penalty, a huge majority of players skip hard content, making the game tedious.
Anyway, all of this has been discussed over and over, and each party stay on its position no matter what.
/thread
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch?
If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch.
Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart...
Last edited by Panini_aux_olives#1967 on Oct 16, 2015, 1:58:54 PM
