77 different normal maps.

Honestly, I don't understand what's the point of having 77 different tilesets to just play a fraction of them.

MMORPGs (and even D2) have an area level cap, and then they make you play different places because of the drops in the endgame.

Maps in PoE have a big level variation, and you'll play them mostly because of experience and map drops rather than item drops, and that ends wasting tilesets. It should be a minor area level variation (or even there should be not area level variation, although item level can change, like in D2), and items should be the reason to play different tilesets (more emphasis on map uniques and rare affixes).

A consequence of that would be to make the acts more viable (because they wouldn't be at a level so far from the higher tiers) too.

Bribe the players to make them play all the content. They'd kill themselves for those sweet drops. You can then turn the difficulty to 11.

Also, higher tier gating is insane. There is no good reason to do that. No one likes it or it's excited for it. Those last tiers should be like Ubers in D2. This is ridiculous.

Synergies mod for Torchlight 2 and Median XL mod for Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction are examples to follow for apropiate endgames, and they are ARPGs too. GGG should refine and innovate over that.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Honestly, I don't understand what's the point of having 77 different tilesets to just play a fraction of them.

(just for clarification: its not that many, most(all?) tilesets are used as base for multiple maps)

whats the point:
-to have choices?
conter: what's the point to have 77 different maps if they all are completely random, even by their design? (instead of just a more or less varying monster appearance)

Intentions behind the differentiation were: to offer different layers of 'difficulty', to offer different maps you can prepare different chars for each to suit best (hint: one of the most important ideas in POE is to have multiple, different chars and builds...) ^^

Most of variation comes from the level range of the maps which you cant (and wont) 'skip' - but it seems that this is where your 'fraction of choice' mostly came from... - its just YOU that limits yourself if you refuse to play a map because its 'too low' for your mindset.

Pre awakening this was even worse. You only had 1-3 map variants, but usually only 2. Like I remember running hundreds of underground river maps. Rarely a residence or a gorge map. Back then even 75 maps were impossible to sustain. They increased the droprates now and added more maps.

But if they would just make the tier system increase in xp&difficulty the more you beat, then even the ggg builds would eventually hit a ceiling and die. Right now all builds, no matter whether you have a crappy self-found build or whether you have an aoe of 500k+ dps. You will most likely still run the same level maps...
There is absolutely no point in getting a better build right now unless you want to go for the top 100 ranked.

Re: opinionated: there's very little scaling between lower and higher maps.

You'll notice if you check your gem xp that you get roughly 800k for a low tier map versus 1.1m xp for a higher map. The same dps can clear both maps. Almost, if not as quick. What changes is the defences needed.

GGG has built maps around a requirement to roll harder mods (making higher maps feel harder due to higher density, more conflicting mods, harder environments, less FPS !), but the reality is a lot of the difficulty of a given map is whether certain mobs can appear in it (flicker strikers, for example), and the boss.

Having a crematorium boss show up in a random 68 would not be good for keeping players in the map system. As it is everyone thinks dungeon is mostly a wank, not least because it takes so long to run around but mostly cause the boss isn't worth doing by the time most builds can do it.

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davidnn5 wrote:

Re: opinionated: there's very little scaling between lower and higher maps.

You'll notice if you check your gem xp that you get roughly 800k for a low tier map versus 1.1m xp for a higher map. The same dps can clear both maps. Almost, if not as quick. What changes is the defences needed.

GGG has built maps around a requirement to roll harder mods (making higher maps feel harder due to higher density, more conflicting mods, harder environments, less FPS !), but the reality is a lot of the difficulty of a given map is whether certain mobs can appear in it (flicker strikers, for example), and the boss.

Having a crematorium boss show up in a random 68 would not be good for keeping players in the map system. As it is everyone thinks dungeon is mostly a wank, not least because it takes so long to run around but mostly cause the boss isn't worth doing by the time most builds can do it.

Then simply any given tier can drop a tileset = or < itself.

i.e. If I'm running a T5, I can drop a +0 from any of the 34 tilesets = or below.
If I'm running a T5, I can drop a +1 from any of the 40 tilesets +1 or below.
If I'm running a T5, I can drop a +2 from any of the 45 tilesets +2 or below.

If I'm running a T10, I can drop a +0 from any of the 59 tilesets = or below.
If I'm running a T10, I can drop a +1 from any of the 63 tilesets +1 or below.
If I'm running a T10, I can drop a +2 from any of the 67 tilesets +2 or below.

NB, Before anybody picks up on a point that isn't there: Actual lower tier maps dropping isn't removed.

Your mad Mageara cannot appear in a 68 (although, it's worth noting, Zana has other ideas here, any way).

The problems that GGG say they want to avoid, are actually realised with the current system.

I'll repeat my main point from the OP, I get bored, with PoE mapping not mostly because I am not progressing but because wherever I stagnate my content becomes repetitive.

As for the point about Dungeon, it's a fucking breath of fresh air when Zana opens me a Dungeon.

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davidnn5 wrote:

As it is everyone thinks dungeon is mostly a wank, not least because it takes so long to run around but mostly cause the boss isn't worth doing by the time most builds can do it.

This discrimination is reducing map diversity. The same problem as favoritism.

Something I didn't see you mention is the map drop rates. The higher the tier the less likely a new map is to drop. Because of this, the player is more encouraged to kill the boss on higher tier maps vs lower tier maps. This works out in a way because the player can skip the boss on a 68 crematorium at less of a cost than skipping the boss on a 80 crematorium.

stale layouts for different tiers add some felling of progression. For me progressing through maps would feel much more boring with random tilesets.

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kamil1210 wrote:

stale layouts for different tiers add some felling of progression. For me progressing through maps would feel much more boring with random tilesets.

That's the point, lol.

When you are progressing you encounter different tilesets.

You will, however, either stagnate at your sustain point, whether it is chaining the final 2 tiers, or chaining a mid 2 tiers.

How did you miss that? Did I not make it quite clear?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

"

kamil1210 wrote:

stale layouts for different tiers add some felling of progression. For me progressing through maps would feel much more boring with random tilesets.

That's the point, lol.

When you are progressing you encounter different tilesets.

You will, however, either stagnate at your sustain point, whether it is chaining the final 2 tiers, or chaining a mid 2 tiers.

How did you miss that? Did I not make it quite clear?

boss and monster density tied to tiles is probably one of way that GGG use to balance maps

in theory 80-82 maps are here to counter boredom in hgh tiers, you chain 77-79 and do 80+ ocassionaly

Agreed, the current map system just sucks