I know its Hardcore - but perma-death?

How about:

When Hardcore temp leagues die, all League Specific Uniques are transfered to a 'remove only' tab in standard, but the character goes to temp Softcore league?

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Exialis wrote:

How about:

When Hardcore temp leagues die, all League Specific Uniques are transfered to a 'remove only' tab in standard, but the character goes to temp Softcore league?

All League specific unqiues have been pretty lame for the last few leagues, in addition with divination cards getting access to league specific uniques isn't outside the realm of possibility in either league, no need to put them in remove only tabs IMO.

The bigger discussion here is almost no sc temp league player would want hc temp league characters to go there after death, people give away or sell items affecting that economy there. Chris has asked about this or talked about this in the past, but they are hesitant to do because of the 8\8 challenge as well. I do however believe this is the right move, but I doubt the community would support it.

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

The ability to retain an item does give incentive, but that cost is unacceptable IMO as you would just "save" the most expensive item you have and something rather generic like a lightning coil or 6 link multimodded weapon and it just cheapens the whole thing just to encourage players to play. Not something GGG should ever consider doing.

See, I get what your saying entirely. all the way down to this last statement that is just pure opinion 'not something GGG should ever consider doing'. you really think that would somehow mess up the economy eh? I think that's just a guess, but not sure what you base that on. In D2 you got all your gear back and it sure seemed to work pretty well - that's the only reason I suggested it. I would always reroll my dead HC if got my gear back in d2, I would often just quit for the season though if not. (considering I got high level anyway)

As it stands, HC ladder runners pass off their RIP'ed characters gear to be sold in SC and no doubt some of that wealth makes it back to the HC challenge leagues. (via unenforceable cross-league trading) I just think if there was a 'legit' way to get something back, and for any HC player not just the top streamers - it would be damn nice.

The second part of your statement might be a possibility if GGG decides to dump hc temp league characters into sc temp leagues instead of standard, that way anyone\everyone could possibly legally cross league back some of what they have lost. I think this would encourage more HC participation, without devaluing items\economy, but would probably effect SC temp leagues negatively and seeing has the SC player base is larger, I doubt it is something they would do.

In regards to how it worked in D2, sure you could but the loot system was also FFA allocation, I'm sure they would try something like that if you wanted FFA back.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Demonoz wrote:

Well OP i will say this much about HC in POE it is MUCH more forgiving than D3 HC!

In D3 HC if you die not only do you lose your character and everything on it and in its inventory but its gone FOREVER into a Graveyard. Atleast in POE you die in HC you can still play the character and use the build and gear on it in Standard. D3 you can go look at it but its never to be used again.
Not to mention you can also DC in POE and not be stuck in game for 10 seconds which means for sure death!

Thats why alot of people play POE for its HC mode in comparison to D3s HC. In fact now that D3s servers are having such issues recently which have progressively gotten worse over time most people wont even try HC in that game at all. And even if you do play HC theres so few others playing that you are very limited on being able to play with other people.

Thats why i prefer POEs HC to D3 any day. Much better all round IMO. I think the way GGG did its HC is much better too just because when you die you can still use the character its just transferred to Standard instead of lost forever. I thought that was a very interesting a good approach to HC.

That isn't anywhere near the case and the simple reason is PARAGON LEVELS.

Hardcore characters are a joke in D3. Yes you lose the ability to play the character and all the items he had on him, what you retain is the hardest thing to obtain, paragon levels.

As you are progressing a hardcore character in D3, you simply keep your old items in your stash, in case you die and if you do, someone can power level you in 10-20 min back to 70, in which case you already have some, if not most of the gear needed to play at a similar level you were already playing at.


A lot of people play in HC in PoE compared to D3 because there is actually an incentive to play in HC in PoE vs D3, biggest factor being the economy\trade, something D3 hasn't seen in a long time. In D3 the only reason to play in hardcore is to have a separate leaderboard that never reaches anywhere near what softcore players could because you have to be "safe" Again, the reason why the number of hardcore players are so low is there isn't any incentive to play there, the typical excuse like economy or feeling of hardcore just isn't there. The most valuable thing you lost in hardcore d3 is leveled gems and insanely rolled ancient items, gems can be leveled as "backups" and you can stash any ancients you get just in case.

The transfer character from HC to SC was derived to encourage players to play in HC, problem now is the temp leagues see the most players (total or at least should) and anyone playing in the temp leagues don't want to play in standard's economy.

While i agree with most everything you say here it IS the case in D3 that people wont touch that shit because of its servers right now. Just go look at the HC forums at the multitude of posts about people losing their characters to lag and DC everyday. Its one thing to lose your character to a one shot but its a whole other problem when your playing and the server takes a shit and you log back into a dead character at no fault of your own. That 10 Second lock in it bullshit. But they are also totally against Logging Out so with that said i suppose its a necessary evil.
POE HC is better in every way IMHO. Like you said everything in D3 is about Paragon so to play HC is pointless. Grouping in D3 is just like Trading in POE... if your not doing it then your only screwing yourself over.

And thats another point you make... When i started playing HC in POE i started actually deleteing my Dead Characters from Tempest... I mean i already have a roster of builds in standard so there really no point to keep all those characters some of which are only half done in standard once they get there so i do also get that being an issue as well. I also give away most of the gear that would be on those characters as well seeing as how most times i already have multiple copys of most of that gear or better gear already in standard as well. Still yet i do like the idea if i have hundreds of hours invested into a build and it finally dies i COULD still play around with it in standard if i so choose. I guess i just like being given a choice something you dont get in D3.. You die its gone and thats that!

But i also quickly seen exactly why people call standard a dumpster league now... It is in reality because between the Temp Leagues pouring into standard as well as both HC leagues when temp leagues are going thats ALOT of extra stuff that ends up in standard so thats why the economy is so much different in standard compared to any other league!

Thats another point you make that i also like in POE... i cant just cheese my way back to maps by beggin someone to power level me when i die. Which i will admit does cheapen the HC experience in D3 ALOT. I remember i was going to try and help someone lvl up fast and they were ALOT lower lvl then me after a few mins they message me to tell me because i was in the group they were getting NOTHING for exp. I found that good in a way. You want to lvl your character YOU have to lvl it.

We need to start collecting some of these more esoteric suggestions and creating a little "Hall of Fame" for them.

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nait2k4 wrote:

We need to start collecting some of these more esoteric suggestions and creating a little "Hall of Fame" for them.

^ Yes please!

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

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kcstar wrote:

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

So, I guess I'm not an experienced HC player?

If you do:

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

but once you get up to lv 85 or so, as a HC player you really need to invest everything you have into getting that character geared as best as you can.

... then YES, you and (almost) everyone you know are not very experienced in my opinion.

I just realized something, you don't even play the challenge leagues.

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kcstar wrote:

... or he plays perma hc like me, sometimes there is absolutely no one xD

The dynamic is entirely different. Since you seem kinda new here, I'll explain.

Most HC players do not play up to the last day of the challenge leagues, unless of course you have a living high level character still - I just checked my friends list and out of about 80 or so HC challenge league players there is about 2 or 3 of them still active as of today. BTW several of my friends hit lv 95+ this season in tempest.

We use-up/burn all of our currency before the league ends, because its USELESS to us after. it is entirely sensible to spend what currency you have by mid season investing in gear for your best character because for many of us, when that character dies we are out for the season. (for example, turning everything into fuses and crafting a 5l or 6l)

Next time, before criticizing someone please consider that most real HC players don't play/ don't bother with perma hc. (considering it was spelled out that we were talking about challenge leagues in the thread I assumed you knew that was the case)

Dude... I started playing PoE with nemesis, played invasion, played part time beyond, rage quitted on bloodlines and don't bother with temp leagues since tempest. I am in a guild with 95% temp league players... I am the only one still playing, because I don't have this up/down cycle... got it? I know both - I dislike the temp league ghost town cycle - I have a nice totem pole in my hideout and completed 4/4 and 4/4 challenges for the skins. BUT anyway: if you put all currency in one char, no matter if it's temp/perm don't cry like a baby if you lose everything in a splitsecond and have no backup plan!