I know its Hardcore - but perma-death?

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

I sure would not mind a way to loot a corpse like in D2. (granted in d2, charms were a big deal and you DID lose all of those)

At least that way you could rebuild instead of the 'all or nothing' situation we have now.

Maybe even something like having a HC Master who could allow HC players to mark their gear so that it stays in HC if they die? - so that way at low levels he could only help you save one item, but at level 8 you could reserve everything from going to standard.

Saving items in HC would be a mistake, that would leave the only thing left that makes it hardcore is whatever level you were which just takes whatever amount of time.

I dislike the notion of saving gear in HC as the whole reason why HC is good IMO is the economy is better because items DO get removed.

Almost everyone quits the season when their high level HC dies.

It's one thing to lose everything when you are level 65 or something, even if you lose perfect leveling gear, its replaceable. but once you get up to lv 85 or so, as a HC player you really need to invest everything you have into getting that character geared as best as you can. Once you have done this, and that character RIP's, you are pretty much done for the season. you cant recover without heavy grinding, you cant even do your master missions for a long while.

anyway, if there was a way to save just ONE item, I think it would make a big difference in keeping HC leagues more active.

I mean everyone quits because the leagues don't really offer anything new after a month. By then you likely already had a geared character and played what you want.

You don't need to invest really anything on a high level character to succeed that is just false. I still have 19 pure ex in tempest after ripping my character that I did invest some into and after I grabbed some items to rip to standard, void battery, volt. rift bow, binos, and one or two other things.

You should NEVER fully invest everything you have into one character, that is just dumb. You need to ensure you have enough to get back on your feet for when you die, not if you die. Anyone that plays "all in" in HC does it knowing they won't be playing anything more then that one character.


Not sure if you understand, but any part of the character should be moved to standard otherwise it completely messes up the nice balanced economy in HC temp leagues.

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

So, I guess I'm not an experienced HC player?

If you do:

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

but once you get up to lv 85 or so, as a HC player you really need to invest everything you have into getting that character geared as best as you can.

... then YES, you and (almost) everyone you know are not very experienced in my opinion.

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

'dumb' or not, you should realize that most HC players do this to a degree. right?
(...) and almost all of my friends have quit for the season by then too (...)

almost all of your friends ≠ most HC players
.... OR show evidence!

in ARPG terms, "hardcore mode" means "play with one 'life'".
simply put: die = lose your character.

Path Of Exile is a game that actually changes this equation. you don't lose your character upon death, but you are being thrown into another league.
pretty harsh, but at least the character is still playable.

personally though, I think dying at high level in an SC league is equally painful.
you quite literally lose many hours of your - real - life.

Well OP i will say this much about HC in POE it is MUCH more forgiving than D3 HC!

In D3 HC if you die not only do you lose your character and everything on it and in its inventory but its gone FOREVER into a Graveyard. Atleast in POE you die in HC you can still play the character and use the build and gear on it in Standard. D3 you can go look at it but its never to be used again.
Not to mention you can also DC in POE and not be stuck in game for 10 seconds which means for sure death!

Thats why alot of people play POE for its HC mode in comparison to D3s HC. In fact now that D3s servers are having such issues recently which have progressively gotten worse over time most people wont even try HC in that game at all. And even if you do play HC theres so few others playing that you are very limited on being able to play with other people.

Thats why i prefer POEs HC to D3 any day. Much better all round IMO. I think the way GGG did its HC is much better too just because when you die you can still use the character its just transferred to Standard instead of lost forever. I thought that was a very interesting a good approach to HC.

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

How this works varies from player to player, but seriously this is entirely aside from my point - and that is, if you could recover an item(s) from your dead 'main' character it would give you a damn good reason to reroll instead of waiting for next season.

Last league was the first HC league I took serious, dabbled a bit in bloodlines and I made 4 characters.

The first one was simply to get me started in the league and build a little bit of wealth, she died to soon at level 75, but I still had a few things that made leveling a bit easier.

My next character was a cycloner I got to level 88 or 89. He was strong, but boring, I dislike the way cyclone really works in PoE, especially after the changes to the AoE in 2.0 (for quality) The character made me some sick bank mainly doing early\mid level maps super fast. This was around the time map drops were really the worst. He eventually died, partly because of boredom of the playstyle, partly because I couldn't see the flamebears and got shocked. This character used a 5 link weapon and just generic armor and regular gear for the rest, seeing as he wasn't doing the highest level maps (because it was impossible to climb in maps myself) there wasn't a need to invest much into the character, plus again it was boring.

The third character I did was my most successful character ever (including softcore) I knew from reading around that a 0 mana cost incinerate was possible, because of this I planned a build around dual doon scepters and utilized iron will gem. This meta requires a character to be extremely tanky or have great range and in closed beta I played a ranged bow character for a couple of the resets, not a playstyle I wanted to repeat so quickly. I utilized eleron rings (they didnt all need to be 8's, I think I had 8,7 and 6 and it worked) I invested into the life\cost nodes below the templar and the dex\int\mana cost nodes in the marauder area. This character was designed to live, have high armor and I swapped around a few things compared to what other people likely did. I ran Grace, AA and HoT. I used IR as well. Because of my previous death I decided my quicksilver flask would be shock removal and my first granite would be curse immunity, this would enable me to not get shocked and never get undercapped. Character was very strong around 20k tool tip on incinerate (stage 1) with a 6 link, which I farmed the cards 1 weekend for. Eventually died to a 1 shot volatile blood in a map that had no way to make that "deadly" this is when I lost interest in the league, plus my sales were declining considerably from my shop.

I made a 4th character, designed to be a supportish character, got bored before I finished her ~75.



The ability to retain an item does give incentive, but that cost is unacceptable IMO as you would just "save" the most expensive item you have and something rather generic like a lightning coil or 6 link multimodded weapon and it just cheapens the whole thing just to encourage players to play. Not something GGG should ever consider doing.

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Demonoz wrote:

Well OP i will say this much about HC in POE it is MUCH more forgiving than D3 HC!

In D3 HC if you die not only do you lose your character and everything on it and in its inventory but its gone FOREVER into a Graveyard. Atleast in POE you die in HC you can still play the character and use the build and gear on it in Standard. D3 you can go look at it but its never to be used again.
Not to mention you can also DC in POE and not be stuck in game for 10 seconds which means for sure death!

Thats why alot of people play POE for its HC mode in comparison to D3s HC. In fact now that D3s servers are having such issues recently which have progressively gotten worse over time most people wont even try HC in that game at all. And even if you do play HC theres so few others playing that you are very limited on being able to play with other people.

Thats why i prefer POEs HC to D3 any day. Much better all round IMO. I think the way GGG did its HC is much better too just because when you die you can still use the character its just transferred to Standard instead of lost forever. I thought that was a very interesting a good approach to HC.

That isn't anywhere near the case and the simple reason is PARAGON LEVELS.

Hardcore characters are a joke in D3. Yes you lose the ability to play the character and all the items he had on him, what you retain is the hardest thing to obtain, paragon levels.

As you are progressing a hardcore character in D3, you simply keep your old items in your stash, in case you die and if you do, someone can power level you in 10-20 min back to 70, in which case you already have some, if not most of the gear needed to play at a similar level you were already playing at.


A lot of people play in HC in PoE compared to D3 because there is actually an incentive to play in HC in PoE vs D3, biggest factor being the economy\trade, something D3 hasn't seen in a long time. In D3 the only reason to play in hardcore is to have a separate leaderboard that never reaches anywhere near what softcore players could because you have to be "safe" Again, the reason why the number of hardcore players are so low is there isn't any incentive to play there, the typical excuse like economy or feeling of hardcore just isn't there. The most valuable thing you lost in hardcore d3 is leveled gems and insanely rolled ancient items, gems can be leveled as "backups" and you can stash any ancients you get just in case.

The transfer character from HC to SC was derived to encourage players to play in HC, problem now is the temp leagues see the most players (total or at least should) and anyone playing in the temp leagues don't want to play in standard's economy.