[New End-Game Content] - 'Hall of Hate' - explanation inside.

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TheDeathX wrote:

You mean it like an poe arena? --> HC death = Death or similar to an "arena game"

I´d prefer the idea --> no exp + no death penatly (+hc death = still hc)
Then its like an "arena game" to gain additional loot and see how far you can go.

Maps = exp / random loot
HoH = "random" loot + challenge
Aziri = exp + atziri item + loot

Now you're talking about letting HC players have easy life on this :)
Just like you might die in level 82 map, u might die in HoH.
If you finished floor 8 for example and feels its too hard, just go to the chest reward room, open the chest, loot what you need and get out.

It's not meant to be arena-like.

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tsachiy1 wrote:

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TheDeathX wrote:

You mean it like an poe arena? --> HC death = Death or similar to an "arena game"

I´d prefer the idea --> no exp + no death penatly (+hc death = still hc)
Then its like an "arena game" to gain additional loot and see how far you can go.

Maps = exp / random loot
HoH = "random" loot + challenge
Aziri = exp + atziri item + loot

Now you're talking about letting HC players have easy life on this :)
Just like you might die in level 82 map, u might die in HoH.
If you finished floor 8 for example and feels its too hard, just go to the chest reward room, open the chest, loot what you need and get out.

It's not meant to be arena-like.

TheDeathX idea actually has more potential if your aim is to create alternative end-game content though.

Because like he states, you make a division between end-game.

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Maps = exp / random loot
HoH = "random" loot + challenge
Aziri = exp + atziri item + loot

Now you have something GGG can expand upon, for example they could create leader-boards for HoH runs. Similar to what D3 does with their rift system.

It creates a "fame" concept and pushes players past the "grind gear and xp" thresh hold that currently exist's.

The ladder already serves a "fame" purpose in league's etc, but HoH could expand on this for the entire community since you don't necessarily need a lvl 100 character to win on those leader-boards etc.

Trully tsachiy1 the experience factor is a major issue with your concept in the bigger picture that is PoE and i don't bring that up to diminish your idea or concept at all, just as a realistic view towards the system in its whole.

If you trully want diversity in the PoE end-game, then moving away from maps which are essentially "bundles of xp" needs to be achieved, while still providing incentive to players to participate in this alternative content.

I could already envision assembling a team to run HoH to beat my own leader-board score for example etc..

Peace,

-Boem-

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MatrixFactor wrote:

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tsachiy1 wrote:

As said before, even with smasher like you it takes much more time to finish HoH than a single map. its 15 maps + master missions.

and in addition its not available all the time.

can easily make it worth currency to enter but I'm trying to avoid it.

I would just whirl past everything and only do the 77+ areas. Kill the boss move on.

Not being available all the time makes it so that people complain about content being time-gated. Like farmville or clash of clans, are you really suggesting PoE becomes more like those games..?

Ideas are cheap, solid justification is not.

it would be pretty simple to put a requirement to kill a reasonable portion of the level content in order to progress to the next level.
1. Require a rampage of 300+ - force you to kill at least that many monsters and added difficulty
2. Master missions WILL slow down a map run if you have to complete them
3. Requiring less than 20 monsters remaining to unlock next level would also not be unreasonable

Hey xHavoc, we had the same thought with the 20 or less monsters remaining:-)
Added to the main post.

Boem, im not trying to fight over it and i will be satisfied even if the idea you came up with will be done. (Btw HoH ladders are a great idea!)
Another option is that tier 11-16 will grant 20% less exp or so.

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tsachiy1 wrote:

Hey xHavoc, we had the same thought with the 20 or less monsters remaining:-)
Added to the main post.

Boem, im not trying to fight over it and i will be satisfied even if the idea you came up with will be done. (Btw HoH ladders are a great idea!)

I'm not fighting either, i am simply pointing out that if you tackle this concept from a player perspective instead of a dev perspective the chances of it being incorporated into the game will diminish.

We have had well over a hundred suggestions like this and all of them contained free experience without an associated cost, which ultimately is the down-fall for such concepts if they want to have a chance of being functional within the frame-work PoE offers it's community.
(note : in it's current model though, this could all potentially change if the dev's decide experience no longer needs to be gated behind a cost, which seems unlikely in the near future?)

The underlying concept is great and workable in my opinion, i even suggested something similar a year ago.

A pure challenge based dungeon that did not reward experience but loot. This was because people where mostly posing the argument that they seek challenge for their characters and not necessarily experience gains.

Truly for a concept to have a chance of being implemented you need to try and put yourself in the dev's position. Without an underlying secret agenda or player driven goal.

This means making sacrifices to attain your goal.

In an ideal game without competition and ladders etc i'd say great idea experience gains and all. But that game is not PoE currently, it does contain a ladder and competition, which makes any form of alternate experience gains a potentially hard things to balance, both now and in the future.

I'm just providing you feedback on your idea, while nudging in the direction of something that could potentially hinder it's implementation :). You might not like the fact it shouldn't provide experience(as a player, playing PoE) but in the mind-set of a dev it makes perfect sense though.

So many decisions the dev's make seem unfair or illogical to the players, while making perfect sense from a dev perspective.

Peace,

-Boem-

Thats true and im aware of it, and will support this in 2 terms:
1) each floor will be significantly harder than the previous one
2) the chest loot iq/ir in the high tiers will be pretty high

Also, maybe a card for each boss in floor 16 and maybe guaranteed unique in the chest at floor 15
(Like unique crypt map boss)

Its all under suggestions and i like when people type their own smart ideas. Thanks for that.

it's not like the devs have to take the entire idea or nothing... ultimately they could take half the idea, do whatever they want to it so it barely looks like the original anymore and then rename it the Great Cute Kitten Shoot


really what this and 100 other threads like it boils down to is that players want real end game content and not just an end game grind that is not even challenging but simply an RNG gate to slow down level advancement into the 90's.

there is currently no stress test in the game to see how far a build/player skill can be pushed.

I absolutely love this idea, and more so I love the idea of it being just a challenge rather than gaining XPs.

+1 for making it ZERO XP gained while inside the HoH.

I'm flip/floppy on hc death = still hc. I think if Vegan is going to kill me in a dual and pop me out of HC, then so should the HoH (I assume if Vegan kills you, you are out since I lost %10 XP on him once in SC). That would make the HC HoH ladders even more cool, and if you are at the top of it, you got real balls.

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Shinare wrote:

I absolutely love this idea, and more so I love the idea of it being just a challenge rather than gaining XPs.

+1 for making it ZERO XP gained while inside the HoH.

I'm flip/floppy on hc death = still hc. I think if Vegan is going to kill me in a dual and pop me out of HC, then so should the HoH (I assume if Vegan kills you, you are out since I lost %10 XP on him once in SC). That would make the HC HoH ladders even more cool, and if you are at the top of it, you got real balls.

yea sounds cool for me aswell :-)

I love the general idea. Needs some tweaking, and not sure about the keys (do not understand exactly how they are meant to work), but yes, in general, that sounds like it could be a very well-integrated alternative endgame (and yes, Atziri already is an alternative endgame, and Uber can be a very good alternative endgame if you can handle her).

Not sure about the no XP gained. There seems to be no logical (in terms of lore) reason for why this should happen. Running HoH completely would require a significant investment in time (even if you are fast, if you find Tora at the end of a Gorge and have to run all the way back... well, it takes time). So make almost-full-clear mandatory, make the boss mandatory. Make the maps larger than normal if you want. The XP at the end is then not "free", it requires investment - time, rather than currency, but still. Farming currency also requires just time, nothing else. Also, there already is "free" XP in this game - just run blue lvl 75 maps, if you have enough of them you can probably chain them indefinitely. It is just a bit less deterministic and a bit more random.

This whole thing sounds like it could be a good challenge, and I like the idea.

Besides, as for loot - seeing that you can only carry one inventory out, this might not be the ideal kind of endgame if it is supposed to give lots of loot.


EDIT: Even with no XP I would still play this quite a lot probably. However, question is then what happens to the death penalty.